Debating between the 6.5 Creed vs the 308 Win in a Ruger American

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by Border Bandit 32, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. plp

    plp

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    You had to go there.

    I shoot Remington Coreloked ammo in my ancient Mauser, which was built over 100 years ago, because it is designed to be fired from ancient rifles, like mine.

    I have a friend, who shoots a CZ that is about 15 years old, and who reloads. He has designed some hotrod rounds for 7x57, that would blow my rifle up, in my face, no doubt.

    He has also designed some reloads for me, with a 78 grain projectile, in a polymer sabot casing, that are incredible, allow me to shoot out to 600 yards with a dead on target acquisition, with iron sights. My hold over is line up the top of a silhouette target, drop is about 4-5 inches, smack the target dead in the face.
     
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  2. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    Damn...somebody quick, call the US Palma team and tell them the .308 can't work at 1,000 yards... LOL

    And here I was wearing out my .308 match barrels around the 5,000 round mark...anyone know where I can get a .308 barrel that lasts 40,000 rounds? For match purposes the throat in .308 barrel is shot out around the 5,000 round mark...you'll never see it at 200-300 yards. But at 600 and beyond the barrel will begin to throw rounds out of the 10 ring... Hunting accuracy? Don't know. Never shot a hunting rifle out before....but I'd guess 10,000 rounds.

    I've never shot out a 6.5cm barrel but my friends who compete and own them say they begin to go south around the 2200-2500 round count. About the same as a 7mm rem mag in terms of match accuracy barrel life. Most of the serious HP guys these days shoot a 6mm something or other...a .243 will also burn out a throat pretty fast. None of this really matters to a casual shooter or hunter.
     

  3. garya1961

    garya1961

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    There are 308 barrels that last 40,000 rounds but that's talking about military accuracy not match grade.
    A lot of FAL barrels with the rifling half gone will still hold to 3 MOA which is what most will do brand new.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  4. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    3 moa on a hunting rifle is piss poor accuracy...
     
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  5. garya1961

    garya1961

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    I won't disagree with that but it meets military standards. From what I understand the military standards for a M4 is 4 MOA.
    ETA, After thinking about it a little more 3 MOA for a hunting rifle isn't all that bad. I know we have been spoiled with very accurate cheap hunting rifles these days but just a few years ago 3 MOA was quite acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  6. LostinTexas

    LostinTexas Exploring Alternate Routes

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    3 MOA is about 6 1/4 +/- inches at 200 yards. That is an irresponsible shot on a game animal.
    Add the margin of error for most ammo not matched to a barrel and it increases.
    That is why so many people send so much effort to match ammo to barrels.
     
  7. garya1961

    garya1961

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    How many hunters do you think can keep a group under 3 inches not shooting from a bench.
    Twenty years ago 3/4 of the hunting rifles out there would do good to hold 3 MOA from a bench.
     
  8. LostinTexas

    LostinTexas Exploring Alternate Routes

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    Maybe in NC. I would suspect the ammunition was more the culprit, that is why so many rolled their own. A lot of old timers that don't shoot year round have started buying ammo, because it is pretty good these days.
    Just because you can't do it doesn't meant it is any fault of the equipment.
     
  9. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    I've been shooting hunting rifles for more than 40 years and never and no where in my lifetime was 3 MOA from a hunting rifle considered "acceptable".... Even most lever guns with a max range of about 150 yards will do 2 moa out of the box.

    But in this day and age you can buy a Savage Axis for $300 and its guaranteed to shoot MOA and most all of them will! Ditto for a Ruger American, a Mossberg, a Tikka, a Bergara etc etc...
     
  10. garya1961

    garya1961

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    Most people think they and their rifles shoot a lot better than they actually do. I'll bet half the hunters out there can't sit at a bench and shoot two 5 round groups under 3 MOA back to back.
    Just like most who claim to have a 1 MOA rifle don't really.
    If it's irresponsible to hunt with a rifle that shoots 3 MOA wouldn't it also be irresponsible to hunt if the shooter couldn't hold it under 3 MOA?
     
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  11. Call Me Trinity

    Call Me Trinity

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    Why 5 rounds? Looking for that flyer? Lol, just joking.
     
  12. Border Bandit 32

    Border Bandit 32

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    image.jpeg image.jpeg
    I am glad I am in the 50% that can lol
     
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  13. garya1961

    garya1961

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    Where I come from less than 5 rounds doesn't count as a group. Also just because you once shot a MOA group doesn't make it a MOA Rifle.

    To Border Bandit, I saw that, great shooting.
     
  14. tacticaljoey

    tacticaljoey

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    6A4322C1-6ACF-4D55-A2C4-347AF7C0FAFE.jpeg Care to guess how many rounds went in this 100 yard group?
     
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  15. tacticaljoey

    tacticaljoey

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    40EF6BE1-EBA7-4530-B04A-95BC001C3D28.jpeg Or this 300 yard group?
     
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  16. garya1961

    garya1961

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    I never said there weren't some really good shooters or extremely accurate rifles out there. Your average deer hunter who shoots a box and and a half of ammo a year probably isn't that good. Most still manage to put meat in the freezer though.
     
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  17. Aceman

    Aceman

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    SO I got through most of page 1.

    All the .308 reasons covered.
     
  18. Call Me Trinity

    Call Me Trinity

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    Just having fun. No need to qualify yourself.
     
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  19. cciman

    cciman

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    If I can't shoot 1 MOA, then it must be the gun, the scope or the ammo. I'm a perfect shot. :dancingbanana:
     
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  20. garya1961

    garya1961

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    I guess I've said enough but before I go just let me explain what I am trying to say.
    First the 308 is a really good round. Second most people can't shoot as good as they think they can. Finally it really doesn't matter because you don't have to be a military sniper to deer hunt.