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debating as to whether or not to get rid of the dogs...your thoughts

Discussion in 'Woof Memorial Critter's Corner' started by Nelybarg, May 7, 2007.

  1. Nelybarg

    Nelybarg NC Glocker 30

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    So wife and I have 2 dogs. they're both mutts. Hazel is about 55-60 pounds. no one knows what breeds. Karma is about 45-50 pounds. built like a whippet, except shes got got a hound's ears and face..

    we've had them both since 2002 and to me they're family. they're mostly indoor dogs, sleep on the bed, all that kinds of stuff. we've got a large fenced back yard, but the dogs would rather be inside than out.

    We've got 2 kids. my son will be 4 this summer, my daughter is 8 months.

    for some reason, the dogs have become aggressive, both with each other, and at very rare times with family members.
    in the past week, they've gotten into a couple of big fights with each other over god knows what and Karma got slightly injured both times.

    they're getting really bold when it comes to food. since both my kids are smaller than the dogs, they have no problems with snatching food out of the kids hands when they see an opportunity (we feed the dogs plenty of dog food). Hazel is very bold about it and has even growled once when we scolded her for snatching food when caught in the act. Karma is very timid and will drop the food and run away if caught.


    tonight, the wife calls while i'm at work. she tells me that she left the baby on a play mat on the floor in the living room after she had changed a diaper. she walks around the corner to throw the diaper away in the kitchen and hears the mutts getting into it. she runs back in and the dogs are fighting, and are basically over top of the baby on the floor. baby's screaming her head off. wife breaks up the fight, kicks one out back, and the other runs upstairs scared. she goes to check on Karma upstairs and Karma wont walk, and is holding her left right paw up in an injured fashion. wife checks, no breaks or cuts or anything, so its probably just bruised. I'll take her to the vet in teh AM if she's not better. my son later tells mom that hes was scared of the dogs when they were fighting.

    wife tells me she wants to get rid of Hazel. SHes the more aggressive one anyways and is always trying to muscle Karma around. Wife is concerned that Hazel may start becoming more aggressive with Karma, and eventually be aggressive with the kids. I can understand her concerns. the questions that I'm unable to answer are, where is Hazel going? I've talked to friends here at work, no one wants a dog. Shes called friends, same story. Theres an animal shelter down the road, but I dont know if its a no kill shelter or what (will find out in the AM).

    Whats Karma's reaction to being a solo dog going to be? They've always been buddies/playmates up until recently. If we keep Karma solo, i wonder how she'll be. will she destroy furniture, mess up the carpets, become aggressive...???

    obviously if the wife wants to get rid of Hazel, then we're getting rid of her. I just dont know where, and am concerned with how Karma's gonna take it.

    any thoughts from those who've read through my ramblings?
    thanks
     
  2. EX-RUGER-USER

    EX-RUGER-USER

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    I got a brand new g23 i've been itching to use on something other then a paper target :thumbsup: so let me know ;)
     

  3. Samson

    Samson

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    You're in a tough spot. I know how dogs become family members. You've had them longer than your children.

    BUT, your 'human' children's safety does take priority over the dogs. So, you're in a tough spot.

    I can't really sway you one way or another except to say: If I ever had to get rid of my dogs; it would be the hardest decision of my life.

    So: any decision you make: don't make it a quick one. Think about it. Discuss it with your wife a few times (maybe your son as well). Try not to have the discussion right after an "event." Don't let anger sway your decision. Make it a family decision so that nobody has any future hatred to the ONE person who made the decision.

    For the short term: (just my unprofessional opinion here): Maybe the dogs (especially Hazel) need some hard discipline. Usually 'inside' dogs: well dogs know when they're being punished for doing something wrong. Living more outside will open their eyes a little. Then, only when everyone is home (you and your wife) can the dogs come in (so that someone is always around to monitor them and scold them when necessary).

    Funny how the scuffle started after your wife left the room for a moment. My two are the same way. I'm alpha male in the house so, when I leave the room: that's their opportunity to get sneaky if there was something they wanted to do but knew they couldn't do it if I was there. AND, with a baby on the floor as in your situation: that's just NOT acceptable. Immediate Discipline.

    Good luck.
     
  4. pjrocco

    pjrocco Rock

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    OMG, you're so funny... stfu and go back to stroking your gun.
     
  5. pjrocco

    pjrocco Rock

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    Nelybarg,

    It sounds to me that they are fighting for pack order. Are these dogs trained? How old are they? Is there any health issue with either one? What sex are they? Are they neutered or spayed? Are they crate trained? Do they roam free around the house? Please give me a little more info.

    Your children's safety is the most important thing, but giving away a dog is only going to fix your problem and it may cause someone else an issue or the dog may be put down. If they are family, treat them like it. If your child was having problems you would help him right? You wouldn't just give him up for adoption.
     
  6. Nelybarg

    Nelybarg NC Glocker 30

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    thanks for the replies. Samson, we definitely dont want to make snap decisions, but last nights event was the icing on the cake for the wife. We've both been noticing abnormal behavior from both dogs for a few months now. its just that Hazel is becoming more aggressive and i guess, trying to assert dominance. Shes always been like that however.

    several years ago we lived in an apartment. my wife didnt like having hazels collar on for some stupid reason. anyways, Hazel got out. I gave chase for a good bit and finally caught her. She knew she wasn't supposed to get out and run. I went to scold her for it and pop her on the rear, and she bared teeth at me. I popped her anyways and tried to make sure she knew who was boss.

    theres other reasons we had considered getting rid of the dogs. we've had to replace furniture because of them (couch and loveseat), and carpet. and like i said before, kids come before the dogs, but i'm wondering are we looking for "excuses" to get rid of one or both?

    Usually someone is always home with. I work a rotating night shift, and my wife works the usual 9-5 so we should be able to monitor them but then again, they've been with us so long, they should know better.

    PJROCCO, both dogs are female and both were fixed when we got them from the shelter as puppies. I agree with your statement about giving them up. In once sense I dont really want to cause they're family, but in another, my kids safety is paramount.
     
  7. pjrocco

    pjrocco Rock

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    I understand and agree with you 100% about your children's saftey. Have you ever heard of crate and rotate? If they can't get along their are many other things to do rather than just give them up. Please don't take offense, but I don't think you are doing everything in your power to help the situation.
     
  8. G20man32904

    G20man32904 Deceased

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    Once again PJ, good post. :thumbsup:

    Nelybarg,
    Everything you mentioned can be "fixed" by a competent trainer. However you have to realize the training is for you and your wife, not the dogs. Everybody gets rid of "problem" dogs. Be different,
    read, learn and act like an Alpha and your dogs will fall right in line.
    You can start with my ask a trainer thread at the top.

    However, pjrocco, Blinky and I will all tell you the same thing.
    Mike
     
  9. Nelybarg

    Nelybarg NC Glocker 30

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    thanks for the comments.

    I didnt mention it earlier...Hazel has been through obedience training with both me and the wife. It didnt take too well. It was one of those classes taught at a petstore one night a week for several weeks. Obviously its one of those things where constant reinforcement is necessary, and we've fallen short on that task.

    both were crate trained as pups but that was primarily for when they were home alone. as they got older and more disciplined we stopped crating. about the only thing they'll do that they're not supposed to when no one is home is sleep on the couches. I've never heard of "crate and rotate", i'll look into it.

    G20. no offense taken. we havent been the best pet owners since the kids came around. we still feed, shelter, and maintain their health regularly, but my wife and I sometimes feel like they're a burden at times.

    like i've said before, I dont want to give up on the dogs, but theres a lot of constraints such as time, money, and conviction that we arent able (or willing) to provide for.

    My wife told me that she wants one or both gone by the end of the week. Thats what i'm faced with. Shes never grew up with dogs, whereas i've always had one or two. I dont think she sees them as family members like i do. I can see and relate to her concern, but its not an arguement i'm going to win. we had discussed it before, but this time there's a catalyst that's pushed her over her threshold of tolerance.
     
  10. EX-RUGER-USER

    EX-RUGER-USER

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    LIKE I SAID I GOT A NEW G23 JUST WAITING IF YOU NEED ME I'LL BE HERE STROKING MY GUN LOL
     
  11. Nelybarg

    Nelybarg NC Glocker 30

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    you weren't funny the first time and were ignored. kindly keep your juvenile comments to yourself. better yet, go stroke your gun in private an leave the adults to alone. you've been remanded to the kiddie table at thanksgiving.
     
  12. sdsnet

    sdsnet NRA Member CLM

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    Why give them both up if one is the instigator ? Do you take them on daily walks ? Every dog needs to be walked regularly to be healthy mentally as well as physically. More on the mental side I think. The others suggestions about crate and rotate as well as moving them outside for most of the time are excellent ideas. Either way you will be changing their routine greatly which may help. Ask you wife to give them one more chance and use the opportunity to change things. Get up 30 minutes early and take them both for a long walk. The family shouldn't notice you are gone and it may help. Keep them outside and make them realize coming in the house is a privilege so they don't take advantage. Any time they get out of line, out they go... Making these changes will make a much better impression on your child than giving them away. If you think the children are in danger though there may not be much of an option for the bad one. It doesn't seem fair that both should have to lose their home because of the problem caused by one though. Hopefully you can fix the problem with changes to their environment. If you do have to give the bad one up I bet the one you keep will be fine.
     
  13. Nelybarg

    Nelybarg NC Glocker 30

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    wife said the bad one (Hazel) has to go by the end of the week. i'm hoping to persuade her differently. Karma may have to go, depending on how she adjusts to being the solo dog in the house. Karma's a timid sweet dog who wants nothing but attention and to be loved so i dont think it'll be a problem for her to stay. We had originally got 2 dogs so they could be playmates and keep each other occupied, just not in the ultimate fighter type fashion.

    we dont walk the dogs, but they get as much backyard time as they want. usually they only want to be outside to do their necessary then immediately want to come back in. which is kinda odd in a way, since every other dog i've ever had preferred to be outside.
     
  14. geminicricket

    geminicricket NRA Life member

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    In Dallas a business called "Man's Best Friend" will train a dog of any age to behave as you want it to. Perhaps such a franchise exists near your location.

    Dogs that sleep in master's bed are not submissive to the master, and are competing for the alpha position with their peers, including dogs and people. You child is not safe in a house where the dog is confused about the heirarchy of the pack.
     
  15. Blinky

    Blinky Rocket Surgeon

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    :thumbsup:
     
  16. G20man32904

    G20man32904 Deceased

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    Nelybarg,
    I'm trying to tell you, it doesn't cost anymore $$ or more time than what you are already spending on them. Dogs don't fail obedience schools, people do. If the wife says they must go, then be a good husband and find them homes. One day when the wife pisses you off, I hope she goes too, and I don't mean that in bad way.

    Between crates and leashes, there is nothing a compentent trainer can't fix in a matter of DAYS!!!!!!


    Still hoping you give them a shot. :hearts:


    Mike
     
  17. G20man32904

    G20man32904 Deceased

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    Dood, STFU and why not swallow one for the team???
     
  18. lcarreau

    lcarreau Reload Artist

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    I know it seems harsh, but i have to side with your wife on this one. With our first child on the way myself and having a dog, this is a discussion I have had with my wife too. My dog has always been good with kids, but has shown aggression with puppies for some reason. We have decided that we will have zero tolerance for any aggression towards the child. That includes growling. The consequences are just far to serious.

    -Lonnie
     
  19. G20man32904

    G20man32904 Deceased

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    Lonnie,
    Talk to me about it please before you give up on the dog. I can talk you thru most all problems you would encounter. If you can cast your own, you can certainly become an Alpha, not to mention the whole 'cue thing you and BS got going.

    If you feed me enough cue, and provide enough lead in 10mm, I might make the trip to Tx to help you out. :supergrin: :dog: :car:
     
  20. lcarreau

    lcarreau Reload Artist

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    Oh, I am definitely the alpha. I had the dog for years before I got married. He een readily takes direction from my wife. My concern is that he may see an infant as something he can compete with. There may also be jealousy type issues. I am sure I could control any situation pretty quickly, but it does not take much time for something bad to happen. Also, my dog can be pretty sneaky. If he had in mind to harm the child, he would wait for a situation where he believed he was not being observed.

    Normally, I would not be concerned, but over the 6 months, he killed one very young pup that got in under our fence and really went after another 8 week old pup, but it was rescued pretty quickly. That is the only aggression I have ever seen besides barking at noises, but it has me a little concerned. He has never gone after a human before and has always been good around kids, but I still will be watching close. FWIW, he is a border collie mix. I have posted numerous pics of him on GTR.

    -Lonnie