[Geeorge]

ANYtime you measure the pressure - cold --- hot -- or in between - they can always be equalized.

Besides, tire pressures are usually rated in cold temperatures unless it states differently on the sidewall.

The normal rating on the tire is for one that is warmed up to driving temp, so the outside temperature doesn't affect the reading as in one day you check and it is 30 degrees and the next time you check it is in the 70 degree range outside

 

[Lt. Donn]

An F78-15? Do you know how old that tire is?

Sadly...yes I do...big sigh...

 

[OUSooner]

The BMW didn't come with a spare tire so it has run flats. Kind of like the piece of mind in case of a blowout.

 

[Rotn1]

I was a Remington/Firestone/Goodyear/etc., tire dealer for years - I also trouble-shot for Triple-A on their vehicular fatalities, etc., and I can say that Michelins were responsible for more one-car accidents than any other radial tire. Period.

There's so much information to impart to you youngsters, but I will answer questions as they come to bear - and if something's not clear to you, let me know.

I left a lot of words out of the post here - and a lot of them have only 4 letters or less.... so they shouldn't be a problem ... but they made my answer a little l-o-n-g.....

.... however ... I'll be here all week .....

Before this becomes TL-DR, I will ask if anyone has ever heard a vehicle going by with a LOT of tire noise? Do you know why SOME tires make so much noise - a rolling-rump-rump-rump type sound?

The biggest problems are:

A] tire rotation ... then
B] road damage ... and maybe
C] Bad tire technology/construction.
D] Wrong tires on vehicle - 40-inch MUD-N-SNOW PADDLEWHEEL tires on a K5 Blazer being driven on the freeway comes to mind.​

Most tires don't like to be moved into a different position on a vehicle and have their job description changed from "power-acceleration/following" to "steering/braking/leading".

Even though I do not use Michelin tires for any of my vehicles, I still, never rotate any of my tires. I get excellent, even wear and reliability from tires that are watched closely and at the first sign of a possible bad wear pattern --- I REPAIR THE PROBLEM, and I don't rotate a tire to make it wear evenly in a different position.

►Once an oddball pattern is developed on a tire, it will continue building the bad pattern and may also pick up a new, secondary-bad pattern in a different position on your car.
►Once a tire is pattern ruined, it is by definition of the very word: ruined ... and moving it to a different position - no matter how well-thought out, etc, can cause carcass separations like you got.​

Once a tire carcass separates, it is a hand grenade with a pulled pin.

Why do tires fail inside the carcass?

1. Striking a very hard object on the highway, breaking cords and corruption of its airtight integrity
2. Running at low air pressure or badly overloaded and run for a period of time.
3. Rotation to a new position causes cords to change position, cutting into each other and weakening the bond to the rubber and losing airtight integrity - causing a bubble and a potential blowout.​

Most modern tires can endure a Front-to-Rear rotation, but 5-point cross rotation is rife with problems.

It's a CORD-thing.

The cords are set into rubber to keep them in both a static and dynamic position and they are happy to perform that duty - and they have to play well with the other cords alongside ... and those crossing them ... (remember - these cords are in RADIAL tires and that's how the cords run - radially - or from the rim/bead on one side, to the rim/bead on the other side.)

Once a tire is rotated, the cords are subjected to different duties and they cut into other cords where they cross and run alongside. After all, the tire will have a few miles on it and the rubber is a living organism and it conforms to the cords as they are when they were new.

But rotation creates physical problems to the cords as they have to play a whole different game with rubbing the cords in a different way and cutting across the others.

This weakens the cords though for a while they may not blow out or even bulge. Once they are run on a vehicle, then the dynamics of load/heat/pressure/directionality all change if they are put in a different work environment!

This is from where the bulges and bumps originate!

It's a madhouse lifestyle inside the cord layers - and rotating the tire to a different position makes the cords work under a lot of stress with which they are not prepared to comply.

The only caveat I can offer here is that with new rubber compounds, better cords and better knowledge of how things work inside tires, a front-to-rear rotation MIGHT be accomplishable without any dire consequences. maybe.

But never for Michelins! I don't even like their motorcycle tires.

Here's some tips I've gleaned over the years as a tire-seller and an anal-retentive user:

1. At least once-a-month ---> look at and physically (with your flat hand) feel the tire tread. It should never have any sharp edges on it. (OK - 'never' is mebee a harsh word)
2. Tires that have a sharp or feathered edge on the tread blocks, are out of alignment, underinflated or can be certain grades of manufacturer defective.
3. Using a real digital pressure gauge, check the pressure in either A front or A rear tire to see what the pressure is like in a tire that has no tread wear or patterning problems.
4. If you find a good wear pattern on (as an example here) A rear tire, then bring the other rear tire to the same pressure as the first one.
5. Do this same thing to the front pair. Test a good looking/wearing tire against the other and even them out for pressure.
6. In reality, most tires will require different pressures in front-to-back loading situations. (Check your door sticker)

About # 1 above --- if there is a buzzsaw type pattern ( ↓ ) on the tread blocks, then there are a few possible causes.

View attachment 854046

ONE is a rotational pattern that is actually a defect in the tire design.


Here's ↓ an example of hard braking or accelerating (this shows on 4WDs a lot).

View attachment 854054

Here's an exaggerated view ↓ of block feathering:

View attachment 854032

In REAL LIFE - tires are not perfect and there MAY be some fore-rear feathering to the tread blocks.

Some other scary tire pictures.......

View attachment 854048

THIS is an instant KILLER! ↑


This may ALSO be very thin brake friction material on the pads. It causes hot spots on the rotor(s) that you can feel in the steering wheel or your braking foot. If it gets bad enough, it will rattle the windows and shake the front end.
A perfect design will never have any sharp, hooked, feathered edges on them because they are all supposed to strike the roadway with even pressure and no untoward tread wear will happen.

View attachment 854050

This ↑ will be a fatality............


View attachment 854052

This ↑ is NOT photoshopped! I have personally seen this not just a few times!

Once again, GT delivers expertise.
Thanks

 

[larry_minn]

The driver matters if you have a catastrophic tire failure. If you panic, nail brakes, close eyes and scream. We’ll be glad for antilock brakes, airbags, cell phones, air ambulances...
If you hold wheel, let it slow as you slowly angle it out of traffic. It’s not a big deal. Tires seldom explosively decompress without lots of warning nowadays.
I’m always evaluating the ditch. Used it not two weeks ago. Semi ran a stop sign,I thought I was fine on shoulder. But he wasn’t able to hold the lane so I went in ditch. Not steep, had been hayed. No damage. Have done it twice with blowouts. Rather then fight it, possible roll. Let it drift into ditch, then find good repair spot.

 

[Kevinr20]

Can anyone tell me what's wrong? Is 3psi too low? Happened today...

 

[Lowcountry_Glocker]

Can anyone tell me what's wrong? Is 3psi too low? Happened today...


View attachment 858294 View attachment 858298

dang!!!! interstate, or local road? was on GOOD OL I-95 today, my word I am once again reminded how much I despise the freaking interstate. on way home I had an 18 wheeler up my tail and we were rolling 80 (70mph zone). I alternated between being annoyed, amazed that I am never BEHIND said truckers, and also furious at his reckless driving, constantly changing lanes, etc. when safe to do so (thick line of traffic, 2 lanes) I got over and let him rock on.

 

[Kevinr20]

dang!!!! interstate, or local road? was on GOOD OL I-95 today, my word I am once again reminded how much I despise the freaking interstate. on way home I had an 18 wheeler up my tail and we were rolling 80 (70mph zone). I alternated between being annoyed, amazed that I am never BEHIND said truckers, and also furious at his reckless driving, constantly changing lanes, etc. when safe to do so (thick line of traffic, 2 lanes) I got over and let him rock on.

surface street. Someone must have lost some strips of nails off their truck.

 

[Lowcountry_Glocker]

surface street. Someone must have lost some strips of nails off their truck.

sorry about your luck. hope it didn't cost too much. I figure 250 ish?

 

[Budqweiser]

I was a Remington/Firestone/Goodyear/etc., tire dealer for years - I also trouble-shot for Triple-A on their vehicular fatalities, etc., and I can say that Michelins were responsible for more one-car accidents than any other radial tire. Period.

There's so much information to impart to you youngsters, but I will answer questions as they come to bear - and if something's not clear to you, let me know.

I left a lot of words out of the post here - and a lot of them have only 4 letters or less.... so they shouldn't be a problem ... but they made my answer a little l-o-n-g.....

.... however ... I'll be here all week .....

Before this becomes TL-DR, I will ask if anyone has ever heard a vehicle going by with a LOT of tire noise? Do you know why SOME tires make so much noise - a rolling-rump-rump-rump type sound?

The biggest problems are:

A] tire rotation ... then
B] road damage ... and maybe
C] Bad tire technology/construction.
D] Wrong tires on vehicle - 40-inch MUD-N-SNOW PADDLEWHEEL tires on a K5 Blazer being driven on the freeway comes to mind.​

Most tires don't like to be moved into a different position on a vehicle and have their job description changed from "power-acceleration/following" to "steering/braking/leading".

Even though I do not use Michelin tires for any of my vehicles, I still, never rotate any of my tires. I get excellent, even wear and reliability from tires that are watched closely and at the first sign of a possible bad wear pattern --- I REPAIR THE PROBLEM, and I don't rotate a tire to make it wear evenly in a different position.

►Once an oddball pattern is developed on a tire, it will continue building the bad pattern and may also pick up a new, secondary-bad pattern in a different position on your car.
►Once a tire is pattern ruined, it is by definition of the very word: ruined ... and moving it to a different position - no matter how well-thought out, etc, can cause carcass separations like you got.​

Once a tire carcass separates, it is a hand grenade with a pulled pin.

Why do tires fail inside the carcass?

1. Striking a very hard object on the highway, breaking cords and corruption of its airtight integrity
2. Running at low air pressure or badly overloaded and run for a period of time.
3. Rotation to a new position causes cords to change position, cutting into each other and weakening the bond to the rubber and losing airtight integrity - causing a bubble and a potential blowout.​

Most modern tires can endure a Front-to-Rear rotation, but 5-point cross rotation is rife with problems.

It's a CORD-thing.

The cords are set into rubber to keep them in both a static and dynamic position and they are happy to perform that duty - and they have to play well with the other cords alongside ... and those crossing them ... (remember - these cords are in RADIAL tires and that's how the cords run - radially - or from the rim/bead on one side, to the rim/bead on the other side.)

Once a tire is rotated, the cords are subjected to different duties and they cut into other cords where they cross and run alongside. After all, the tire will have a few miles on it and the rubber is a living organism and it conforms to the cords as they are when they were new.

But rotation creates physical problems to the cords as they have to play a whole different game with rubbing the cords in a different way and cutting across the others.

This weakens the cords though for a while they may not blow out or even bulge. Once they are run on a vehicle, then the dynamics of load/heat/pressure/directionality all change if they are put in a different work environment!

This is from where the bulges and bumps originate!

It's a madhouse lifestyle inside the cord layers - and rotating the tire to a different position makes the cords work under a lot of stress with which they are not prepared to comply.

The only caveat I can offer here is that with new rubber compounds, better cords and better knowledge of how things work inside tires, a front-to-rear rotation MIGHT be accomplishable without any dire consequences. maybe.

But never for Michelins! I don't even like their motorcycle tires.

Here's some tips I've gleaned over the years as a tire-seller and an anal-retentive user:

1. At least once-a-month ---> look at and physically (with your flat hand) feel the tire tread. It should never have any sharp edges on it. (OK - 'never' is mebee a harsh word)
2. Tires that have a sharp or feathered edge on the tread blocks, are out of alignment, underinflated or can be certain grades of manufacturer defective.
3. Using a real digital pressure gauge, check the pressure in either A front or A rear tire to see what the pressure is like in a tire that has no tread wear or patterning problems.
4. If you find a good wear pattern on (as an example here) A rear tire, then bring the other rear tire to the same pressure as the first one.
5. Do this same thing to the front pair. Test a good looking/wearing tire against the other and even them out for pressure.
6. In reality, most tires will require different pressures in front-to-back loading situations. (Check your door sticker)

About # 1 above --- if there is a buzzsaw type pattern ( ↓ ) on the tread blocks, then there are a few possible causes.

View attachment 854046

ONE is a rotational pattern that is actually a defect in the tire design.


Here's ↓ an example of hard braking or accelerating (this shows on 4WDs a lot).

View attachment 854054

Here's an exaggerated view ↓ of block feathering:

View attachment 854032

In REAL LIFE - tires are not perfect and there MAY be some fore-rear feathering to the tread blocks.

Some other scary tire pictures.......

View attachment 854048

THIS is an instant KILLER! ↑


This may ALSO be very thin brake friction material on the pads. It causes hot spots on the rotor(s) that you can feel in the steering wheel or your braking foot. If it gets bad enough, it will rattle the windows and shake the front end.
A perfect design will never have any sharp, hooked, feathered edges on them because they are all supposed to strike the roadway with even pressure and no untoward tread wear will happen.

View attachment 854050

This ↑ will be a fatality............


View attachment 854052

This ↑ is NOT photoshopped! I have personally seen this not just a few times!

Too long. Did you say that you don’t like Michelin tires? If found that them and Cooper have been really good. Thumbs down on Firestone.

 

[Budqweiser]

I'd put brakes first, but both are critical.

In this day and age, few will ever experience brake failure. But over decades of driving I've had brake failure three times, and one blowout. The blow out was back in the days of recaps on bias ply tires. I was poor in those days.

Two of the brake failures were with the old single master cylinders, which means total brake failure, except for the so called 'emergency' brake. The blow out was at 70 MPH, but I had no trouble controlling the vehicle. Total brake failure will really get your attention FAST.

LOL I had a total brake failure on a highway off ramp years back. Master cylinder failure. Same car had a bad blowout at a different time. Was a 63 Belvedere. I decided maybe modern cars would be a good idea for daily drivers.
The off ramp I had the brake failure on was right next to a Chrysler factory, so I had plenty of people willing to help. My buddy and me were outside dragging our feet to stop it. Here. Made the turn and finally stopped in front of the plant. Caught a ride to White Castle and made the best of it.

 

[Kevinr20]

sorry about your luck. hope it didn't cost too much. I figure 250 ish?

I put the spare on and I'll take the damaged one to the shop tomorrow. My particular tire is discontinued now but the supposed new and improved replacement for it is $200 plus install so it'll probably be about $230ish.

 

[railfancwb]

I put the spare on and I'll take the damaged one to the shop tomorrow. My particular tire is discontinued now but the supposed new and improved replacement for it is $200 plus install so it'll probably be about $230ish.

Thought tire replacements should be by the pair on one end or the other.

 

[Budqweiser]

I always replace them all at the same time. I try to rotate but am forgetful and don’t do it on schedule. I drive AWD vehicles. Those saying not to rotate are wrong if all same size.

 

[LinuxLover]

Too long. Did you say that you don’t like Michelin tires? If found that them and Cooper have been really good. Thumbs down on Firestone.

Yeah .... Firestone are questionable, but towing for Triple-A, I scraped not just a few single car/death accidents in center dividers, off 300 foot drop offs, sideswiped into 18 wheelers, etc., and almost 100% of them had Michelin tires in them.

When I worked as a fleet mechanic at Laura Scudders, they were in the process of going radial at that same time.
They had a lot of times bought radials through the comptroller and she didn't know dog poop from Shinola. it was a cost-deal to her, nevermind the drivers opinions.

Every time they lost a load on the highway, they were blaming the semi drivers of falling asleep or over steering . .. but the drivers all told me it was the Michelin and Pirelli radials that were failing on the front axles ... that's almost always fatal with twin 28 foot wigglers and 80,000 lbs of peanut butter cargo over converter gear ....

These tires scared the drivers so much, the had heated arguments in the break room over whether wearing seatbelts was a good idea or not.

Most drivers had decided years before to not wear them so they could escape a rolling cab.
Now it was up for fistfights again because of the radials that they hated so much with or without seatbelts.

My take is this ----> like not owning a Taurus pistol, I've seen the dark side and whether it's currently valid or not ... I'm a creature of habit and my policies have been stated.​

 

[Kevinr20]

Thought tire replacements should be by the pair on one end or the other.

That's probably true but i refuse to replace a perfectly good tire with less than 10,000 miles on it.

 

[Speleothem]

I'd put brakes first, but both are critical.

In this day and age, few will ever experience brake failure. But over decades of driving I've had brake failure three times, and one blowout. The blow out was back in the days of recaps on bias ply tires. I was poor in those days.

Two of the brake failures were with the old single master cylinders, which means total brake failure, except for the so called 'emergency' brake. The blow out was at 70 MPH, but I had no trouble controlling the vehicle. Total brake failure will really get your attention FAST.

I had a brake failure one time.
I was approaching a stop light, driving my father's really cool Pontiac convertible.
There were cars in the opposing lanes and construction and a three foot drop off
on the right. I hit the car in front of me, that car hit the car in front of it and I
hit the car in front of me again.

 

[LinuxLover]

.

This page intentionally left blank​

 

[Budqweiser]

Yeah .... Firestone are questionable, but towing for Triple-A, I scraped not just a few single car/death accidents in center dividers, off 300 foot drop offs, sideswiped into 18 wheelers, etc., and almost 100% of them had Michelin tires in them.

When I worked as a fleet mechanic at Laura Scudders, they were in the process of going radial at that same time.
They had a lot of times bought radials through the comptroller and she didn't know dog poop from Shinola. it was a cost-deal to her, nevermind the drivers opinions.

Every time they lost a load on the highway, they were blaming the semi drivers of falling asleep or over steering . .. but the drivers all told me it was the Michelin and Pirelli radials that were failing on the front axles ... that's almost always fatal with twin 28 foot wigglers and 80,000 lbs of peanut butter cargo over converter gear ....
View attachment 858398

These tires scared the drivers so much, the had heated arguments in the break room over whether wearing seatbelts was a good idea or not.

Most drivers had decided years before to not wear them so they could escape a rolling cab.
Now it was up for fistfights again because of the radials that they hated so much with or without seatbelts.

My take is this ----> like not owning a Taurus pistol, I've seen the dark side and whether it's currently valid or not ... I'm a creature of habit and my policies have been stated.​

People doing dumb things were smart about their tires?

 

[LinuxLover]

People doing dumb things were smart about their tires?

Uhmmm.... missing your point here.