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Cut down factory springs legal for stock gun?

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by Joe Mamma, Aug 27, 2003.

  1. Joe Mamma

    Joe Mamma

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    I'm just curious, is it legal for Amateur/Civillian or Stockmeister class to have stock springs (striker or safety block springs) cut down? Technically, they are stock parts but, it seems to violate the spirit of the rules. I checked the rules but, this issue doesn't seem to be addressed.

    Joe Mamma
     
  2. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Short answer: NO . They are no longer "Stock" if they are cut down.
     

  3. Custom Glock Racing

    Custom Glock Racing I did it first. Millennium Member

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    I would be interested in an official ruling on this from HQ.
     
  4. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    So would I. If polishing is legal and changing springs on guiderods, why not a lose a coil or two?
     
  5. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    In AmCiv? AmCiv is stock as far as recoil springs and guide rods are concerned. Polishing always has been but I have not seen in AmCiv where it is legal to change recoil springs and guide rods. Am I missing something here. I would love to put an ISMI 15# recoil spring and Tungsten guide rod in my AmCiv gun. ;c ;c ;c
     
  6. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    Matt changes a Glock spring from a 19 onto a 17 rod and uses it in Stock Meister. Didn't you read his tip on gun mods? ;f
     
  7. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    My opinion is that it is illegal in stock Categories, but I will ask Chris Edwards for a ruling. Modifying a frame or slide is not permitted, so why should modifying a spring be acceptable? On the surface, it sounds like cheating to me, an effort to overcome personal shortcomings.
     
  8. Joe Mamma

    Joe Mamma

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    "On the surface, it sounds like cheating to me, an effort to overcome personal shortcomings."

    I agree. But, using non-factory ammo or aftermarket sights sounds even worse to me and those are legal.

    Joe Mamma
     
  9. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    Joe,

    I'm not going to get into a hot debate here. GSSF does not allow ALL aftermarket sights, but only sights of similar design. This is necessary because up until recently, all Glocks shipped with night sights had aftermarket sights--Meprolites or Trijicons. GSSF does not allow express, fiber optic, ghost, red dot, laser sights or sights that require slide modificaton in stock Categories.

    Reloaded ammo presents it's own problem--you do not get a re-shoot for an ammo related malfunction. Most shooters reload for improved accuracy, not reduced power, but Tony Clemens has proved that you can win both Stockmeister and Unlimited with Wincheste USA from Wal-Mart.

    I, for one, would not have any problem if GSSF specified factory ammo only.

    GSSF does not allow use of the Glock tactical light in GSSF, as it is considered as added weight to the pistol.
     
  10. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    I think the word cheating here is inappropriate. We said we'd like to hear what GSSF's opinion is. If they say it's appoved it can't very well be cheating can it?

    Joe,

    In all honesty if everybody wants to go box stock and the pistols are inspected before every match I can live with that. Factory ammo, I can do that one too. If we changed though what would people blame their shortcomings on then when they don't win. ;)

    They always thought TJC was "cheating", trouble is he was just fast and accurate. There are still those folks out there.
     
  11. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    "They always thought TJC was "cheating", trouble is he was just fast and accurate. There are still those folks out there."


    Look at Tony. He uses Winchester USA from Wally World, in both U/L and Stockmeister. His Stockmeister gun is stock except for trigger polishing and BoMars. Even his U/L gun is stock except for trigger polishing and the Red Dot, he even uses the stock G17L recoil spring and guide rod. Here is a true winner just like TJC who wins on personal skill and a heck of a lot of practice, not gadgets and games.
     
  12. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    The official word from Scott Gilbertson, GSSF, is that spring modifications, considered to be pistol modifications, are not permitted except in Masters/Unlimited. That includes putting a G19 spring on a G17 rod. It's that simple.

    Plates and poppers are calibrated to drop when hit with a Blazer 115-gr 9mm bullet. If the plates or poppers do not fall when hit, you can expect your pistol, including springs, to be examined in the future.

    GSSF would like to maintain their sport based on stock Glock pistols. Gaming is for other sports.
     
  13. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Thanks Danny. The answer is just as I thought. That is how I read the rules.
     
  14. Custom Glock Racing

    Custom Glock Racing I did it first. Millennium Member

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    I have managed to win a few things with games and gadgets.
     
  15. driver8m3

    driver8m3

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    i've never seen anyones gun ever inspected at a glock match. in fact, i've wondered how many people have shot their 34 or 35 in am civ unnoticed. its hard to believe some of the ROs i've seen would care. at one unnamed match i shot in, the plate RO was allowing people to start at HIGH ready...basically ON the plate!

    what kind of preparation/training is given to the ROs? are they told about the different models only being allowed in certain categories?

    in the end, i doubt many people have won matches by "cheating." even with a cut spring, you still have to shoot fast and accurately to win.

    dannyr: do most people really reload for accuracy? i dont reload (so i really dont know), but none of the ammo i have ever used has had an accuracy problem at up to 25 yards. every shot i have ever missed has been because i wasnt aiming right when i fired. i thought everyone reloaded to cut down on recoil...which itself would help accuracy (and split times).
     
  16. DaleGribble

    DaleGribble Sandwich!

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    Ok, we got the official word, and I can understand why they would disallow clipped springs, after all, they disallow external frame mods like shaving the trigger guard. However, I think maybe a rule change should come out of this discussion.

    Here's my bone of contention. Why can I use a 3.5 lb connector in my G17, which comes from the G34/G35 and the G17L/G24 but I can't use a G19 recoil spring in my G17? I don't understand why it is ok to manipulate trigger pull weights with factory Glock parts but you can't manipulate recoil with factory Glock parts.

    I'm not trying to stir the pot, it's Glocks game, so it's Glocks rules, I think we just need a little clarification.
     
  17. jay.shebuski

    jay.shebuski

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    Dale...I hear what what your saying. The argument that Glock parts is Glock parts...well, makes sense.

    But, "I think" the recoil spring swap alters the "function" of the gun and "may" reduce it's ability to function, as designed, as in fire the velocity and weight ammunition it was tested with and designed to fire.

    ..and I think, in the "stockmeister" category, those kind of alterations should be "disallowed"

    ..no bad feelings Matt:)

    Jay
     
  18. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    If you wish to do better in GSSF, PRACTICE!

    If you want to watch sneeky competitors shoot G34's in Am/Civ and say nothing about it, fine. If you want to do something about it, then say something about it at the match, not three weeks afterwards.

    This forum is about following rules, not bending or breaking them. If you don't like a rule, then attempt getting it changed by GSSF in a professional, mature manner.
     
  19. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    Using that philosophy, there go your reloads too. :(
     
  20. Joe Mamma

    Joe Mamma

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    DannyR, I don't know you (or at least I don't think I do) but, I know you're the Moderator so I probably shouldn't say this. But, if you read each of the posts in this thread, everyone is having a civil, polite, and friendly discussion of the GSSF Rules. Well, everyone except you.

    Noone here is talking about how to cheat or break rules. Believe me, I would rather be practicing but, that's not easy for everyone. Where I work and spend almost of my day (Washington DC), it is pretty much illegal for 99.9% of the people to have a gun. Not on your person, in your car, in your home or at your friend's house, and of course, there isn't a single shooting range in DC (except for law enforcement officers). So now, it is against your rules to think about guns, shooting sports, gun modifications, etc. and post my thoughts on a computer? I know this is a private board and I am a guest but, can't you lighten up a little?

    Joe Mamma