Crushing primers

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by ottomatic, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. Taterhead

    Taterhead Nightshade

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    This, exactly. And S&B are some of the most stubborn to seat fully.

    Last year I burned up a few bricks of primers from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. All 100% bang.
     
  2. Kwesi

    Kwesi

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    I made this rookie mistake again just last week and they weren't S&B's (although I have many thousand of them). I'm starting to run my finger over the seated primers to confirm proper depth.
     

  3. jmorris

    jmorris

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    Not sure I could say “no way”. I think I have seen them crushed just about every way one could be crushed.

    People trying to seat LP into small pockets, “ringers” where only the bottom of the cup was removed and new ones won’t fit, pull backs from the decapping pin and trying to fit two into the same pocket, the sideways seat and of course variations of mangling caused by crimped primer pockets. If folks use enough force they have even ignited them before. All with otherwise “installed right” and properly functioning priming systems.
     
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  4. ottomatic

    ottomatic

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    Well, mixed news. I figured out my perceived problem with the primers. There was no problem. First, I looked at the primers under a magnifying glass, and realized the the S&B ones were just shaped differently from others I was familiar with, not flattened. Then I figured out why I had a misfire. The gun had not gone into battery, hence no shot. So I had to figure out why it wasn't going into battery. I had put the rounds through a gauge, and they fit fine, no problems. But, today, when I dropped them into the chamber of two different 9 mm barrels, they didn't seat completely. I had some samples I had made using 115 Berry bullets, and they worked fine. Then (yesterday) I loaded up my (primer and powder) test rounds using 124 gr ACME coated bullets, and now I had problems. I miked both bullets. The Berry bullets miked at .356 and the ACME ones a hair larger at .3565. The OAL was the same, but I noticed that the 124s had a different profile, so on a hunch, I seated a 124 deeper into the case. TaDa, problem gone!!!

    While I was tinkering with all this, I noticed that my primers were not feeding. When I made my test samples yesterday, I single loaded the primers, as I was only making five rounds of each type. Today, I could not get the primers to feed, unless I put some gentle pressure on top of the primer rod. Then, no problem. I took the whole priming system apart and cleaned it, but nothing has changed. I could probably make a small weight to go on the top of the rod (which sets off the alarm), but maybe I'm overlooking something obvious.
     
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  5. RSCamaro

    RSCamaro

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    When you take the primer assembly apart again, slide the primer catcher back and forth and see if it is allowing the primer to drop from the primer tube (My nomenclature is probably wrong). It could be the the little plastic piece on the end of the primer tube is buggered up. Or you may need to change the adjustment screw setting, but I doubt that is the case since it operated before.

    ...Ron
     
  6. Samuel_Hoggson

    Samuel_Hoggson

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    Make sure the primer slide is making full excursion, nothing binding. (No need to ask me how I know) Make sure the primer punch set screw is tight, and the punch is not bent even slightly.
     
  7. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

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    Most people glue a inverted 45 case on top of the follower rod for extra weight. I think 9X45 has a picture of that somewhere on GT.
     
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  8. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    I too learned. Case gauge or not, you must plunk.
     
  9. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

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    Like I have said many times, a case gauge is great for a lot of things but finding your COL for that bullet and that barrel is not one of them. You need to match the bullet to that barrel even though you might have a different make and of bullet that looks the same.

    When doing a plunk test. If the brass was sized right. Then it's one of two things or both. Either the COL is too long for that bullet and barrel. Or the bell on the case is not removed enough.The case gauge will help with getting the right amount of removal of the bell. But it is useless for COL unless the round is sticking out the front of the gauge. But then it goes back to the barrel of the gun and if it will feed in a magazine at that length..
     
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  10. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

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    Yes, I don't use the low primer system anyway. So i t's just a .45acp case with some lead shot in it. Helps put a bit of weight on the primer stack. Another neat trick is to use a Dillon 650 primer magazine tube, the one with the brass tip. You never have to mess with the stupid plastic tips anymore. Also keep the primer slide clean and oil free. Couple of other tricks, replace the spent primer catcher chute cotter pin with a straight piece of wire, or paper clip. And I made a shroud for the spent primer cup.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

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    S&B primers have less of a radius on the shoulder making them a bit harder to pickup and seat. However, before the shortage, you could get them for about $18/thousand, making it worthwhile. You can't seat a primer too deep, but you can set it too high. Stand on the crank handle to make sure they seat. Mixed brass usually has surprises, like mil spec (crimped) brass, and stepped brass (IMT, Freedom Munitions, AmmoLoad and MaxxTech.) Best to stick with known head stamps.
     
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  12. jmorris

    jmorris

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    I love it when I am trying to solve a problem and find out I don’t have one.

    I went through this around 35 years ago, everything worked fine, I changed calibers and the problem showed up, switched back and still issues so I figured I messed something up. Through trial and error I found that the knurled nut on the blast shield should not be tight. I don’t even use two fingers to snug it. I run it down to lightly contact the primer tube, then slide the low primer alarm on, so it can’t back off. Then more than 30 years of happiness, without any extra weight on the rod.

    The clue for me was removing the tube from the blast shield and dropping primers through but once I installed it, problems occurred. The difference was the orifice tip wasn’t being smushed while it was in installed.

    Another potential area for a problem is if the punch isn’t fully seated in the slide, this is how I do that part.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rCGV-JPYaE


    FWIW I have never had a bad primer orifice “get better” once I damage one, things don’t get better until I replace it. Call or email Dillon and have them send you some new ones, if you are running low on them.
     
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  13. jmorris

    jmorris

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    At least before they stopped importing them.
     
  14. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

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    I broke my follower rod. So I ordered some carbon fiber rods, cut one to length and took a chrome 45 case drilled out the primer pocket hole to just fit the rod. Seated a pulled 185 gr. plated bullet on top, put the rod in a vise vertical ,I think I used JB weld in the case and put in on top of the rod. Making sure it was straight and let dry. Also used the cut end of the rod inside of the case. Don't need carbon fibers sticking in my hand.
     
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  15. ottomatic

    ottomatic

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    That was why I thought that I had crushed a primer.

    So, it seems that my need for some weight on the primer rod is not out of place.
    I did clean everything with a dry brush as well as some alcohol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  16. ottomatic

    ottomatic

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    Thanks for that video. Seems like a simpler way than swapping out the bar. Also, thank you for advising NOT to tighten down the knurled knob.

    Regarding your point of bad "primer orifices" not getting better... I'm not sure if I know what a "primer orifice" is.
     
  17. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

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    A thousand likes. Should be a sticky.
     
  18. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

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    Dillon does not recommend doing it that way. I did it that way also. Until I called Dillon because the primer bar where the primer punch goes wolled out and would not no longer prime right. With the new 750 it looks like they made it a lot easier to change out.
     
  19. OdinIII

    OdinIII

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    I’m currently switching to coated bullets so I wanted to expand on this. I’m assuming the case gauge is fine as an only check after I’m sure the OAL isn’t going to an issue or is there more going on?

    Also, I shot my first 200 BBI bullets Saturday and had 2 light strikes. Stupidly, I went ahead and fired them so I can’t go back and check but now I’m wondering if I was slightly out of battery? I went ahead and put in a new 4.5 lb striker spring and shot a match yesterday with no failures but was using my old JHP loads.
     
  20. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

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    I use the case gauge to set up my crimp die. If it passes the case gauge it is going to fit in a Glock barrel. Even a couple of rounds in a batch of rounds that sit a little high in a case gauge will fire in a Glock.

    If you have a light primer strike and it goes off the second time. 99.9% of the time it is from high primers. The first strike seats the primer and the second sets it off. Especially if let's say you shoot 100 rds. And two did not fire the first time. But fires the second time.