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A while back I stated I was having problems with my Crimson Trace grips, after 2 shots the laser would be just a big red blob. I sent the grips back and CTC said they checked out fine. They called me last Thursday ti check on how they was working, I told them I hadn't checked'em as it wouldn't stop raining. Today I got to check'em finally. They worked like a champ, I think the problem may be in my mits, I have great big mits and I sweat like a whore in church, so I think it was my sweat getting on the lens. I may have to wear a shootin glove when I shoot in the heat. :headscratch:
 

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I have been seriouly thinking about getting a set. So no bull****, are they worth the money?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have been seriouly thinking about getting a set. So no bull****, are they worth the money?
The reviews I have read say CTC are the best for sure. In the bright sun light they are kind of hard to see though. Over all I give them a :thumbsup:
 

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Not worth the price tag, IMO.

I'd invest in a kick ass set of iron sights before I buy laser grips.
Yep. I'd invest in training over laser sights on a 1911. What happens when they fail? For old eyes, XS big dots work really well from what I have seen.
 

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Yep. I'd invest in training over laser sights on a 1911. What happens when they fail? For old eyes, XS big dots work really well from what I have seen.
Yes, I agree. Take some training, especially low light training.

Then you will run out and immediately buy some CT's. I went to one two day low light training class and after the first day everyone that didn't have CT's showed up with them for day two. Good thing for them their was a heck of a big gun store nearby.

If you take a low light class you will see how great they are. All my carry guns and the nightstand guns have CT's. I actually won't buy a self defense handgun unless CT makes a grip for it.
 

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Yes, I agree. Take some training, especially low light training.

Then you will run out and immediately buy some CT's. I went to one two day low light training class and after the first day everyone that didn't have CT's showed up with them for day two. Good thing for them their was a heck of a big gun store nearby.

If you take a low light class you will see how great they are. All my carry guns and the nightstand guns have CT's. I actually won't buy a self defense handgun unless CT makes a grip for it.
That's laughable. Help me out here....the OP's report is of a laser failure is it not? Can you name a major SWAT/SOT/SRT that uses them exclusively? How about an acredited school that incorporates their use in their training? Seems those that train for the real world scenarios don't use them on a wide scale.... if at all.

Okie, to hit home here...... maybe you should hit up the folks at USSA or TDSA and see how much they incorporate lasers in their training?
 

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That's laughable. Help me out here....the OP's report is of a laser failure is it not? Can you name a major SWAT/SOT/SRT that uses them exclusively? How about an acredited school that incorporates their use in their training? Seems those that train for the real world scenarios don't use them on a wide scale.... if at all.

Okie, to hit home here...... maybe you should hit up the folks at USSA or TDSA and see how much they incorporate lasers in their training?
The OP's report of them CT's "failing" is something I have seen before. It is almost exclusively causes by a way over lubed gun slinging lube into the laser as it is being fired. Or it is caused by extremely dirty reloads, lead and light charges of 231 usually do the trick. It always happens after you fire a few rounds and never renders the laser useless. It just makes the laser dot go from a fine dot to a cluster of about 2 to 6 inches at 20 yards. Still usable for SOM shots at 20 yards. I have never seen this problem with duty ammo or clean reloads, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. But the laser still works.

I have no idea what LAPD SWAT uses, but ours does. For a list of agencies just call CT, they are happy to talk with you.

Several schools use them. They may not be on the equipment requirement list, but the schools will say they will make a definite factor in your ability to score hits more accurately and quickly. All very good things in a gunfight.
Thunder Ranch, MagPul Dynamics, LAV, Rodgers, and Gunsite all teach the use of CT's. I know BlackHawk does also, but have not received any training there (hopefully in a year or two). But I have no doubt of this because Todd Jarrett teaches there. But all will tell you to train with what you have. You don't need them, but they do enhance you skill if you know how to use them.
 

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I just want to add that they are to be used in conjunction with good sights, good training, and a good practice schedule. They do not a crutch for someone that never trains or practices. It's just another tool at your disposal.
 

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My whole point was to stress the importance of training over equipment?
What do you mean by teach the use of CTs? I've taken SD pistol courses from TR, USSA, and Tom Givens. Nobody has mentioned CTs or incorporated them in their criteria. I'm sure if someone showed up with them, they'd adjust accordingly. However, would you not agree that money is better spent on training than $300 laser sights? They might enhance but they are no substitute for the fundamentals.
 

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300 dollar CT's??? I ordered my last set for 180. If your paying 300 you are making some gun shop owner smile. They are on sale on the errornet sites all the time.

Have you ever received low light training?

If you have ever used them you will see a persons performance raise with the use of CT's. A person with little, or advanced training, will see their performance ( speed and accuracy) increase with the CT's.

Isn't that the whole point???

They are not a substitute for fundamentals, but they do increase the performance level. In as much as I have seen persons of lesser skill use CT's and are more accurate and precise than some of greater skill set. And have seen "scores" of individuals immediately increase with the use of CT's.

TR did not endorse CT's. But with a 1/4 of the class having them, Clint did address them as a multiplier.
 

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300 dollar CT's??? I ordered my last set for 180. If your paying 300 you are making some gun shop owner smile. They are on sale on the errornet sites all the time.
I will express my ignorance and say that I haven't priced them in quite some time.

Have you ever received low light training?
Yes.

If you have ever used them you will see a persons performance raise with the use of CT's. A person with little, or advanced training, will see their performance ( speed and accuracy) increase with the CT's.
Gonna have to disagree on the advanced part. I don't know if it's anecdotes or what but they aren't used locally by professionals. Here's a local LE that Owns and runs TDSA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbC5mEc6ipE

Not seeing the advantage of CT use would be there. Rather I don't think his splits are going to get faster with the use of CTs.

Like I said, many professionals may address them, but the fundamentals are far more important and more reliable.
 

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Like I said, many professionals may address them, but the fundamentals are far more important and more reliable.
That was once said of night sights when they first came out.

NIJ studies have concluded that in LEO shootings hit percentages went up 300% using Crimson Traces. (Of coarse CT immediately used the findings in advertising)
300% is hardly a small leap in performance.
 

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NIJ studies have concluded that in LEO shootings hit percentages went up 300% using Crimson Traces. (Of coarse CT immediately used the findings in advertising)
300% is hardly a small leap in performance.
Marketing aside, I don't doubt that a bit, while I'm sure other variables are at work aswell. LEO routinely get minimal training. It would be interesting to see how much their hits improved after a course from any of the aforementioned schools. Again though, most professionals here don't use them. Apparently those that run classes don't use them either. Speaks volumes to me.

I can't speak for your NS comment. I never heard that. Again.... YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The CT grips on my pistol came with it from Kimber:thumbsup:
 

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I have a set of CT grips on my duty weapon. I found that they can be an advantage in low light condition by allowing me to pay attention to just the target and the laser on the target. During bright conditions I found that it was bad to have the CT grips on because instead of trying to use the iron sights I found that I was looking for the red dot and I was not able to find it quickly.
 

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I have a set of CT grips on my duty weapon. I found that they can be an advantage in low light condition by allowing me to pay attention to just the target and the laser on the target. During bright conditions I found that it was bad to have the CT grips on because instead of trying to use the iron sights I found that I was looking for the red dot and I was not able to find it quickly.
I have seen the same problem with folks trying to acquire them in daylight. Another training issue.
They aren't perfect or they would come on every gun for everybody.
 

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Marketing aside, I don't doubt that a bit, while I'm sure other variables are at work aswell. LEO routinely get minimal training. It would be interesting to see how much their hits improved after a course from any of the aforementioned schools. Again though, most professionals here don't use them. Apparently those that run classes don't use them either. Speaks volumes to me.

I can't speak for your NS comment. I never heard that. Again.... YMMV.
It is not just marketing. It was a study by NIJ of Police shootings that CT that eventually used as marketing. LEO's receive more training than most the pistolero's out there today, both being dismal.

Most trainers use the lowest common denominator when it come to gear. It has to be that way for the students. Several trainers use Glocks for training as that is what most students show up with, but carry 1911's. To say that most don't use them would be a misnomer. They may have them personally but not on training guns because most students will not have them. Its for standardization of equipment for the most part.

The NS comment was YEARS ago when NS first came out. Some old timers and some no timers that could not embrace new training tactics and equipment didn't see the need for fancy dancy glowy in the dark sights. "We never needed them before. Good training will out rule any new gadget like glow in the dark sights. Besides they will ruin your night vision."
 
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