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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So currently in the USA he really have just one punishment for criminal behavior. Go to jail or prison or the death penalty (which, face it, is really just a long prison sentence in most cases).

Yet we are trying to do 3 different functions with the above model.
Reform: We do not like this behavior and we want you to change.
Punishment: The criminal has done something wrong and now you must be punished.
Sequestration: The criminal can not be with the public because they are likely to recommit that type of crime

Yet Prison is not really great for all three tasks. I propose we do it differently.

Reform: Actually place the person in a some kind of rehabilitation program. Whether that is drug treatment, counseling, or job skills training.

Punishment: You get caned, whipped or otherwise experience some form of corporal punishment. You get a time limit to finish the sentence and medical treatment at your own cost between punishments. It is not the goal of corporal punishment to maim or kill but it is possible.

Sequestration Prison: You get locked up and likely not released. Rapists, child molesters and murders can not be on the street.

Sequestration Home: Some sequestration can be done at home. The person is chipped and if they leave their home they get stunned gunned internally and 911 is called.

I think my system could be cheaper. It cost about $40,000 to keep a person in prison.


COST
Reform:
this has to be cheaper to have a person do 6 months of intensive on-sight drug counseling and then outpatient counseling until the person has 1 year of clean weekly UA's.

Punishment: How expensive is it to buy a bamboo stick, or a knotted rope?

Sequestration Prison: What we are paying now. Maybe slightly more expensive because you might have a higher guard to prisoner ratio.

Sequestration Home: Cost of chip/internal stun gun.
 

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No more death penalty. “Escape from New York” model instead for lifers.

No guards on the inside. Wall with guard on the outside. Dump in prisoners and everything they need to build a society.

There are enough trades represented in prisons to cover everything from physicians to ditch diggers.

Let them live with their own kind in a city they build. Frag them if they get close to the wall.
 

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After 20 years spent behind the walls, i could really support some of the OPs ideas.
 
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How about just "shunning" them? Seems to work for the Amish....and from what I read here, most of the criminals are Amish.
 

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Just drop the prohibition on drugs. If it kills you, you should've known better. If you it drags you down because you can't help but abuse it (you lack self-discipline) well dems the breaks. If you can manage it recreationally and still show up for work on time, then it's nobody else's business. Regulate quality standards and normalize usage habits, stigmatize irresponsible/dangerous use. There will always be some measurable negatives (there are with alcohol, but it's legal), but better than the negatives we endure now from enabling & enriching a black market / cartel / prison gang culture.
 

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Sequestration Prison: You get locked up and likely not released. Rapists, child molesters and murders can not be on the street.
Some of the Aleutian islands might be a great place to keep our unwanted criminals. We could make prefab bunkhouse the size of shipping containers and stack them 3 high. The only part that would need guards is the dock /heliport/admin area. Other than giving them supplies and mail we could ignore them.
 

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Wasn't there something about cruel and unusual punishments written somewhere?
I don't think they would have considered 20 whacks with a cane cruel or unusual 230 years ago.
 
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I think there will always be a need for prisons. Evil people exist and can't be on the streets. I'm only a fan of the death penalty if it's a clear cut case of guilt. It's not something you can fix if the verdict is wrong. But the process needs to be sped up. A new atmosphere needs to be established. Prosecutors are known for withholding evidence. A guilty verdict should mean guilty. The system we have of being under oath is a joke. They'll murder someone but not lie under oath ? The whole trial system needs an overhaul. More instant justice is needed, and theft needs to be taken more seriously. For property crimes, seize a lot of their personal property, money, and television shows daily showing the public who did what to who and where. Lose privileges of going to social gatherings, restaurants, clubs, no drugs or alcohol allowed to be bought, must wear horribly ugly prison striped uniforms every where they go with conviction of what crime written on front and back - public shaming. Forbidden to date in public. There are ways...Then, when the sentence is up, with some exceptions to certain jobs and crimes - don't allow employers to see the record....unless repeat offenders. We want people to be employed and productive. The way it is now, a prison sentence means life long poverty - of course they will commit more crimes. It's 2020, and to put a man in a cage for years is barbaric, and should be avoided at all costs. I don't want to sound too soft though, there are some people who absolutely cannot be allowed onto the streets. Want to change that, then fix the economy, let a man with a single job be able to have a wife and kids and support them with one 40 hour a week job, have a car, a boat, and a vacation. If you do that, most of the above isn't necessary. Evil will always exist, legalize what you can't stop which is drugs, and bring back the traditional family unit, and as the saying goes....It's the economy stupid. Fix that, and 75 percent of what we have to deal with in prisons disappears. It's not just a criminal justice that needs to be fixed, it's an economical one. When the economical system is broke, the family unit is broke, and the whole system breaks. I'm a conservative and a constitutionalist, but the chiefs need to pay the indians more - and the indians do horrible work any more - but you get what you pay for. Fix it...
 

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I think if they ignore this while committing there crime then this should should no longer apply to them. I’m for the eye for an eye deal.
I think you and Deltic, miss the point, it will go thru the current courts, who often misinterpret or ignore the forefathers completely, you might eventually get it to a court high enough to call it right, but in the mean time, status quo.
 
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I was a CO for a few months and dealt with those goons, i wised up and accepted it wasn’t for me pretty quick.

In that short time I learned a lot, if you’ve never done the job it’s easy for you to come up with some sort of “plan”.

Child molesters, these guys are easy to spot. They stay low key and don’t really talk to anyone or staff. I’ve worked with them on the outside and they always go back down that path.

Gang bangers, these guys try to act the hardest. Prison is cred and a right of passage. White, black, Mexican whatever. The wanna be thug white guys are the worst. The Mexicans have their click and don’t really mess with you.

I could write a list on and on. But at the end of the day I’d say most of those guys don’t have a second chance outside those walls.

Not bragging or proud of it, but after that job I can say I’ve looked evil in the eyes before. One guy was the biggest acclaimed crip killer in the area. The guy shot and killed his girlfriend and her three year old daughter execution style. He flat out told me this and had no remorse. Not to mention the countless other murders or drive By’s he had under his belt.


My perspective? Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.
 

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Somehow other advanced countries are doing better. Maybe we should look to them for answers.

What works for bob should work for you right even though you are two different people?

Gun control works in X country compared to America right? Even though said country didn’t dish out guns to their citizens like America has....

The narrative of comparing America to what works for different country’s gets old and IMHO irrelevant.
 

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It can be cruel or it can be unusual. But read it, it can't be both. I'm OK with that, preferring the cruel punishment version for criminals most often.
That's one reason interpretation of law can be so tricky. "cruel and unusual punishments" can be read either way. It can be both
 

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Somehow other advanced countries are doing better. Maybe we should look to them for answers.
Are those countries over 90% north Asian or North European? That seems to work well. There is also Singapore where they beat people for minor crimes. It does seem to be an effective way of preventing littering and jaywalking.
 
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