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Creepy; drive by the site of a Japanese internment camp every day.

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by vart, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. aplcr0331

    aplcr0331 Compulsory Collectivisim

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    Is anyone saying we should lock up American citizens today? Why are we arguing over something that already happened? The government apologized, payed reparations and most everyone knows that it was a mistake. Good grief, tomorrow I'm hugging the first Japanese person I see and buying them some tea so we can have a good cry about this.
     
  2. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    No, it's because we were not threatened by an invasion on the East Coast.
     

  3. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Well, in 1942 my family was still in Korea. My grandfather was drafted into the Imperial Japanese Army, in fact. Most of my extended family was already dead--murdered, you see, during the Japanese occupation.


    Absolutely.

    I wore the green suit, just like you. You can't possibly tell me that you didn't see things that were unfathomably wasteful and stupid during your time in the green machine.

    There is no "reason" that's a good enough reason to lock up American citizens who are not being charged with a crime. Not a single one. The fact that I have to explain this on a forum dedicated to supporting the second amendment is saddening and sickening at the same time.

    Those people were citizens, just like me and you. Many of them were born here, just like me and you. They have ancestors that came from somewhere else, just like me and you.

    Where they came from does not matter. They lived here, they followed the laws of this country, they were entitled to the legal protections that are afforded to any citizen.
     
  4. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Figured out which ones they were, and locked those ones up. How is that even a question?
     
  5. 427

    427

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    So sabotage, captured spies and Uboats off the east coast and in the gulf of mexico don't count?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  6. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    Dude, it was war and a different time. (we were attacked BTW)
     
  7. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    No, there was no threat of German invasion.
     
  8. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Just a few years ago we had an American citizen locked up at Guantanamo without a trial.

    Because there are people who claim to be Americans that love freedom who think it was fine.
     
  9. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    How is that even an answer given the situation we were in at the time??
     
  10. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Times of crisis are precisely when it is the most important to respect the rights we are guaranteed in our Constitution. Did you swear to defend the Constitution only when it was convenient? I sure as hell didn't.
     
  11. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

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    BS. A German U-boat landed five Nazi commandos on the the south shore of Long Island not far from where I went to high school. Outside of a few baloon bombs, what was the IJA presence on US soil? HH
     
  12. 427

    427

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    We are at war and there are provisions in the Patriot act that allow Americans to be held without trials indefinitely. It seems pretty easy to labeled an "enemy of the state."
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  13. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    See? There you go.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  14. Trapped_in_Kali

    Trapped_in_Kali

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    Was it right?
    No.
    Would I have done anything different?
    I don't know, I wasn't there. There was a lot of prejudice against Asians and anger over Dec 7th.
    Today is a different time & hindsight is 20/20.
     
  15. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    – The attack on Pearl Harbor severely damaged our Pacific forces and brought America into WW2 – on the side that was currently losing. And this was not like the Gulf War or Vietnam, we could not simply choose to “go home” and end the war. Losing would have likely meant — at some point — marauding Axis armies marching through the countryside raping, murdering, and pillaging everything in their path. The stakes don’t get any higher than they were in a conflict like World War 2.

    – On December 11th of 1941, the freighter SS Lahaina was sunk by a Japanese sub off of Honolulu. Another Japanese sub sank the SS Manini in Hawaiian waters 6 days later. On December 18th, another sub sank the SS Prusa near the “big island”. Several other December attacks occurred within 20 miles of the California and Oregon coastlines. On February 23rd, a Japanese sub shelled the Ellwood oil fields in Goleta, California. At least one “high ranking Japanese military official–Admiral Tamon Yamaguchi…was eager to carry the war to the U.S. mainland”.

    Secretary of War Henry Stimson also wrote this in his diary on February 10, 1942

    “…I think it is quite within the bounds of possibility that if the Japanese should get naval dominance in the Pacific they would try an invasion of this country; and, if they did, we would have a tough job meeting them.”

    In other words, Japanese forces were close and the danger to our homeland was very real.

    – Richard Kotoshirodo, a Japanese American and John Mikami, who was Japanese, gathered extensive amounts of information while they were spying that was very helpful to the Japanese forces that attacked Pearl Harbor. Japanese-Americans (Yoshio and Irene Harada) aided a Japanese pilot who landed at Niihau island, Hawaii after being shot down while attacking Pearl Harbor.

    Cables decoded from the Japanese in May 1941 said in part,

    “We have already established contacts with absolutely reliable Japanese in the San Pedro and San Diego area, who will keep a close watch on all shipments of airplanes and other war materials…”

    That same cable also stated that the Japanese had Japanese-American spies in the Army and that they were watching traffic crossing the American / Mexican border.

    A January 3rd, 1942 army MID memo states, “‘there can be no doubt that’ most of the leaders within the Japanese espionage network of Japanese clubs, business groups, and labor organizations “continue to function as key operatives for the Japanese government along the West Coast”.

    So we knew that the Japanese had a spy network in America before Pearl Harbor and we believed it was still operating after the attacks.

    – While we clearly couldn’t trust citizens of Japan (or other Axis nations) to run around unsupervised while we were in the middle of a fight to the finish with their home-countries (hence the 11,229 Japanese citizens, 10,905 German citizens, 3,728 Italian citizens and a few others who were rounded up and interned), American born citizens were of course a different matter. Certainly, most of them were loyal. Curtis Munson who was been sent to investigate the issue, estimated that 90-98% of Japanese-Americans could be trusted (although he had his doubts about 9000 Kibei — Japanese-Americans schooled in Japan).

    However, Munson also noted that even a very small number of saboteurs could do a cataclysmic damage to the war effort,

    “…The harbor at San Pedro could be razed by fire completely by four men with grenades and a little study in one night. Dams could be blown and half of lower California might actually die of thirst. One railway bridge at the exit from the mountains in some cases could tie up three or four main railroads…”

    Here’s more on the damage that could be caused by saboteurs from Provost Marshal General Allen Gullion,

    “If production for war is seriously delayed by sabotage in the West Coastal states, we very possibly shall lose the war….from reliable reports from military and other sources, the danger of Japanese-inspired espionage is great.”

    – America and other nations traditionally interned “enemy aliens” during wars. For example, in World War 1 more than 6300 “European-born civilians” were interned. Moreover, Mexico and Canada both chose to move ethnic Japanese away from their coasts. Also, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that interning Japanese citizens was constitutional.



    – Last but not least, there were no easy options for dealing with the situation. Mere monitoring of suspect Japanese citizens would have likely be too difficult given the number of people involved, the consequences of failure, and the demands of a world war. Criminal prosecutions of suspected spies would have been nearly impossible because intelligence sources couldn’t be revealed and it would be extraordinarily difficult to prove someone who was say simply watching ship movements (so they could later report them) was committing a crime. Another possibility would have been some sort of “quasi-judicial military tribunal,” but there would have been constitutional questions about that and it couldn’t possibly be as effective as evacuating and/or interning Japanese-Americans along the West Coast.
     
  16. JW1178

    JW1178

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    Then you look at today where we have anti-american islamist living in this country and enjoying the 1st adm rights against us.
     
  17. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

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    Google "Balbir Singh Sodhi" and you'll see what happens to innocent Americans who just happen to look like the bad guys. And the saddest part is that he didn't even look like the bad guys... HH
     
  18. jollygreen

    jollygreen

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    Screw it. I never shot an Indian, never owned a slave and never interned a japanese.

    I don't feel a bit guilty re the real or imagined mistakes of my ancestors. It's all ancient history.
     
  19. Hauptmann6

    Hauptmann6

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    Herding thousands of your citizens into concentration camps is wrong. No matter their ancestry.
     
  20. MAC702

    MAC702 Senior Member

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    [In the 1980's], legal historian Peter Irons stumbled upon evidence that government officials had withheld several documents from the Supreme Court stating that Japanese Americans posed no military threat to the United States. ...

    In 1988, Congress passed the Civil Liberties Act, which led to a formal government apology for internment and payment to of $20,000 to internment survivors.

    Source: http://racerelations.about.com/od/t...Court-Cases-Involving-Japanese-Internment.htm