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Creating the "40 caliber problem"

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by greenlion, May 14, 2011.

  1. greenlion

    greenlion

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    Yeah, but I can't use the same bullets for reloading if I go to .41 mag. I like to keep things simple.
     
  2. SJ 40

    SJ 40 Deplorable,Clinger

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    The rimmed revolver cartridge of .40/10mm has existed since the late 1880's. It's known as the 38 Winchester Central Fire,aka 38-40. The 40 S&W was the ballistically rimless version of that round. SJ 40
     

  3. G23xx

    G23xx

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    165gr are the most available and are cheaper than 180gr atleast where I live. The 165gr defense ammunition also performs very well. I will continue to shoot the 165gr even if the it does recoil more. One solution to that might help is adding a stiffer recoil spring as the .40 uses the same weight as the 9mm in gen 3 atleast.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  4. redbrd

    redbrd

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    Good original post that my number reason for remaining a .40 holdout for decades. I have always owned 9mm and .45's in my handgun collection. The other reasons originally was I had been a 10mm fan when the FBI first went to that caliber. At first I thought the .40 would go the same way but its here to stay (commonly available). I went to the range today and was picking up my brass (9mm and .45) and noticed that there was more .40 brass than 9mm, way more. Might be time to consider an additional caliber to fill the occasional 9mm and .45 ammo dry spells.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  5. Seawolf

    Seawolf

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    Before all the 9mm Lovers show up with their pie charts and jello data let me say I prefer the 40S&W over any other defense round. I feel it gives me a good balance between damage and capacity.
    There are those that think that new ammo technology has closed the gap between 9mm and 40S&W, but they leave out the part where those same advances also improve the 40 as well.
    Now that gun makers are starting to engineer 40 cal pistols to help tame the recoil impulses of the 40 it's becoming a very enjoyable caliber to shoot.

    I used to carry a G30 and really prefer the 45acp, but when ammo prices sky rocketed and became hard to find I found 40S&W abundent in my area so I never had to stop training because of any ammo shortage.

    Everything I have read and seen shows the new recoil system on the Gen4 40 cal Glocks really helps reduce the recoil of the higher pressure 40 so I look forward to trying it out.

    180grn 900fps 14rnd capacity with a recoil some say feels like a heavy 9mm? sign me up for that.
     
  6. Seawolf

    Seawolf

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    If you're muzzle is pointed at the sky when you shoot then you need to work on your technique a little.

    Go watch Hickock45 on youtube shoot his G23 sometime.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4DEzXbBJws
     
  7. Kansas Slim

    Kansas Slim Oxymoron Man

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    Gotta love the .40. Perfect blend between big bullets, modest recoil, good capacity, and solid street record with bullets such as the 180gr Gold Dot.
     
  8. sns3guppy

    sns3guppy

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    The polymer kahrs don't have any significantly greater perceptible recoil than the 9mms. They're quite comfortable to shoot, and with a little rehearsal at the range you'll find that double taps are easy to do.

    This perception of the .40 as a "snappy" round or a "kicker" is exactly what the original poster discussed. It's myth.
     
  9. bmoore

    bmoore

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    Picking a heavy fast bullet has nothing to do with testosterone or being a macho male. It has to do with using your brain and picking the round that will hopefully stop a fight when you need it to the most. Has nothing to do with driving a big truck or any other garb like that. We recently got into a fight at work with a big huge, meth head, career felon, in and out of prison monster recently at work. It took the 3 guys on the engine company and 2 guys on the medic unit to keep this guy from crushing us until sheriffs responded to our cover call. We tustle with quite a few people at work, but this was a changing moment. When someone is seriously trying to kill you, you want the fight to be over like yesterday. The targets are not made of paper in the real world, their big mean and have a serious motivational drive sometimes. Im not saying 9's and 40's are weak and ineffective. I'm just saying that theres a lot more that goes into buying the right load than just "oh those rounds are for macho guys"......not hardly.

    OP-Not trying to ruffle feathers I enjoyed your thread, just bringing in another side to it.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  10. Sonnytoo

    Sonnytoo

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    I sold my forties (too snappy) and I sold my G30 (too big for my hand).
    But, the G36 SLIMLINE is the slimmest thing around, and is my EDC. And the recoil with 200 gr Gold Dots or Winchester 230 gr is JUST FINE.
    Try it.
    S2
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  11. Dan

    Dan

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    I just like to say I have really enjoyed reading this post!
     
  12. RWBlue

    RWBlue Mr. CISSP, CISA CLM

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    As a 9mm and 45ACP/Super shooter with big hands I find this talk about the 40S&W interesting.

    If I had started my gun collection after the 40S&W and 357Sig came along, maybe I would have the same issue, but with the 45ACP/Super the issue is beating the gun to death and the 9mm can be hotrodded, but generally 147grs are pushed just slightly subsonic.

    I guess you really only have a couple options if you don't like the feel of the current 40 ammo. Reload your own or trade for a 9mm (or both).
     
  13. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    That's not been my experience. The physics and the numbers can't back up that statement either. But either way, you seem to be saying that a "mild" .40 load is softer than a hot 9mm load..... Ok??? That doesn't mean it's better for self-defense. I can get "mild" 9mm loads that feel like a .22. So what?

    I've give you this though: I've learned felt recoil and flip is very much gun-dependent. 40 Glocks are about the worst. HKs are the best. An HK is the only 40 I'd ever have.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  14. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Yeah, heaven forfend we should inject actual FACTS and NUMBERS into this discussion!
     
  15. tkosiba

    tkosiba

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    Green Lion

    Recoil is recoil. Just look at a pressure curve of a caliber. We may be on the same page. This whole universal discussion of "felt recoil" is usually most noticed when changing frames or gun designs, like thin to thick or metal on metal. Each caliber has it's own "recoil pattern" like .45 vrs. .40 vrs. 9mm.
     
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  16. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

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    My technique is just fine thank you. I think greenlion's comment about people doing poorly in a timed match when they have an overpowered cartridge are right on the money. Anybody who shoots competitively is aware of people gaming the system to shoot more lightly "tuned" loads to help manage the recoil. Not sure if you read his comment or not, but he pointed out that people with "hot" loads frequently do poorly in such contests where recovery time is key.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  17. agtman

    agtman 10mm Spartiate

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    Why am I hearing the kind of whine this guy puts out? :upeyes:

    [​IMG]

    The original .40 wasn't that effective (180gns @ 950fps).

    In order to get more "punch" without blowing up the gun or, God-forbid, going back to the parent 10mm to retrieve that punch :upeyes: (i.e., a real 10mm load at full-throttle), ammo-makers compromised further by opting to load the .40S&W with ligher bullets at higher velocities, which many LE users wanted.

    So, yes, there are a lot of "snappiness" complaints heard from "nonshooter-types" in LE, who wonder why their paycheck requires that they train and qualify with a 9mm-sized gun chambered for a cartridge that exhibits "low-end" 10mm stopping power with the corresponding energy and blast. :shocked:

    See it everyday. :upeyes:
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  18. bmoore

    bmoore

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    The original .40 was 200grn at 1200fps.
     
  19. 9mm +p+

    9mm +p+

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    My first Glock was a 22, it was a duty wep, we carried full power 165 Gold dots. We had some who couldn't qualify so they tried several more times until they did it. Personally I find the 40 to have more of a snap but less push than a 45 if that makes sense. Any adult in good health should be able to control a 40 or a 45 for that matter with practice. I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 9 or a 40 but I choose to carry a 45. All 3 have good reps in stopping those bent on mayhem, just pick the proper load and put it where it belongs.
     
  20. greenlion

    greenlion

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    Using that logic, you must be carrying an auto chambered for the 500 S&W magnum round. The original point was that many shooters that have complained about the .40 being less controllable to shoot than a .45 are saying that because the .40 is often loaded so hot that it becomes too snappy for fast sight recovery and subsequent shots.

    Had you shot the guy you were referring to with several 180gr .40's going 980fps, and he continued to be a threat, then you would have a point. You seem to imply that the original FBI load is a .22 long rifle round.