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Creating the "40 caliber problem"

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by greenlion, May 14, 2011.

  1. greenlion

    greenlion

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    Over the last several months I have dedicated my shooting time to coming to terms with the .40 caliber GLOCKS. I really wanted to like the .45 caliber GLOCKS, but have to admit that the frame size is just a little too big for me to be as effective with. I like them, but I always feel like I am just "hanging onto" them as opposed to "having them in my grip".

    I have tried almost every brand of .40 ammo on the market through my gen4 G23, and have found that the snappy recoil everyone complains about is purely a product of ego, testosterone, and marketing.

    The original (and still effective) .40 Caliber load of a 180gr bullet traveling about 950-980fps actually has less muzzle flip and tracks better than most +P 9mm loads. Several 165 grain loads, like the excellent Federal Hydra-shok load at around 1000fps are VERY pleasant to shoot as well.

    I think what has happened to the .40 is that the "faster is always better" crowd tried to turn it into a 10mm, demanding faster and faster velocities from manufacturers.

    When presented with two 180 grain loads on the gun store shelf, one at 950fps, and another at 1100fps, the macho male will always choose the 1100fps load. This begins a one-upmanship race by the manufacturers to produce higher and higher velocities, and before you know it, everyone hates the .40 S&W because it is "too snappy, and twisty".

    Had the SAAMI pressure limit not been set so high to begin with, i think some of this would have been abated, and the .40 would be a more user-friendly round. I don't really mind the extra speed possibilities existing, but then it is up to us as educated buyers to demand a round that is user friendly, and that is unlikely to happen.

    It is becoming hard to find rounds that are not trying to reach the speed of light anymore, especially in the lighter bullet weights. If more companies would begin producing lighter loads for the .40, especially for target practice, I think the ".40 haters" would join the club. It is counter productive to advertise them as "reduced recoil" loads like some companies do. You may as well print "for shooters with a small *****" on the side, because no one will buy them.

    I know there will be members here who tout their nuclear load, and have bionic grips that don't feel recoil. One trip to an IDPA match usually cures their confidence, when they see how they can ACTUALLY handle that load in a fast paced semi-stressful environment. I will stick with my 180gr @ 980fps load and do just fine.
     
  2. SARDG

    SARDG

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    We have some reloaders at our club who load their 40's so lightly, that they don't make it out of the barrel... :)
     

  3. misfit356tsw

    misfit356tsw

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    You hit it on the nose right here. Same thing as trying to push the 38 special to 357 mag levels. You just don't do it.
     
  4. GRT45

    GRT45 Transform & Win

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    greenlion, your post is thought provoking and well written. Good job.
     
  5. hayseed_40

    hayseed_40

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    Did you try the SF models? I felt same way on hand size before the SF models. I handle the SF better than a G22.
     
  6. mongo356

    mongo356

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    Good post-

    I also think that has a lot to do with the 40 kaboom rumor. I remember when people were trying to load 200gr bullets in the 40's & the safety margin is very thin.
     
  7. greenlion

    greenlion

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    Yeah, the SF's are the ones I am talking about. I never even considered the older G21/G30... WAY too big.
     
  8. jswest86

    jswest86

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    Greenlion do you know how the .40 s&w cartridge came about?
     
  9. tuica

    tuica

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    Consider the 45GAP? Big bore power in a reasonable grip size. Yes, I was leery at first - now my main caliber pistol in my Glock stable (G37, G38, & G39). Also own the G23, and G36. Cheers
     
  10. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

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    :supergrin:
    Nothing like having your muzzle pointed at the sky when you are in a hurry to ruin your day.
     
  11. Foxtrotx1

    Foxtrotx1

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    So when is the .40 and .357sig +P+ coming out?
     
  12. greenlion

    greenlion

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    Yes. It is a very interesting series of events. Did you hear the interview Mas Ayoob did with one of the survivors of the Miami shootout that led to the FBI experiments a few weeks ago on the Proarms podcast? I kept up with the developments from the beginning, and was a little disappointed to watch some of the missed opportunities over the years. I have always been holding out for someone to create a .40 or 10mm rimmed cartridge, and S&W to squeeze it into an L-frame revolver with no need for moon clips.
     
  13. greenlion

    greenlion

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    Like the cartridge concept there too. Don't like the significantly lowered capacity, or the scarcity of available factory loads and cases for reloading.
     
  14. greenlion

    greenlion

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    Forget that... 10mm +P+:supergrin:
     
  15. willis9

    willis9

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    Shoot a Kahr CW 40, with a 165, now that's a real kicker!:flamingdrpep:
     
  16. greenlion

    greenlion

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    That's another thing. I think the sales of the G27, and guns like the Kahr PM40 and MK40 have suffered, due to the same overcharged rounds and a lack of information on ammo boxes allowing buyers to choose a gentler load for subcompacts.
     
  17. tkosiba

    tkosiba

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    Subjective recoil is really objective. Just video a side profile snappy .40 vrs. other calibers (with same gun/shooter) and you will have your answer, without ego, personal opinion, etc. Reminds me of those who disbelieved that horses in stride have all four hoofs in the air. Until film proved them wrong.
     
  18. GRT45

    GRT45 Transform & Win

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    There is the .40 Super cartridge to set the hair on fire of .45 pistol lovers (.45 Super case necked down to .40 bullet). A 135gr bullet traveling at 1750-1800 fps (920+ ft-lbs energy) even impresses the 10mm guys.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  19. jswest86

    jswest86

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    I did not see that interview I'll have to check it out. Also i'm pretty sure Taurus makes or made a .41 mag five shot revolver equivalent to an L frame in size that is more or less what your talking about with a 10mm revolver.
     
  20. greenlion

    greenlion

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    How can something that is subjective be objective? I can watch a video of a man and woman being intimate in the bedroom, but the personal subjective experience of being there is a bit different (not to mention preferable).

    And what exactly IS the answer we would have by watching this video? The laws of physics still hold. A full power 165 grain .40 when pushed to the same speed as a 124 grain 9mm will recoil more. Period.