Civil Liberties CPD Officer Rialmo to countersue (the estate of) Quintonio LeGrier

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by Burgers Allday, Jan 29, 2016.

Tags:
  1. Lord

    Lord Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,519
    Likes Received:
    1,409
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas

  2. Burgers Allday

    Burgers Allday

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    I don't know how the law is in this area, but my gut level sense of justice suggests to me that a police officer should only be able to sue for assault if the situation she faced would have been considered as an assault if a private citizen had been in the place of the police officer. If the assault only took place because of something the police officer did that a private citizen would not be allowed to do, then it doesn't seem fair to provide civil liability for assault.

    Not sure how that standard would play out in Quintonio's case because I don't know all the facts.

    If a private citizen had acted exactly as Officer Rialmo did, then would she now be in jail? Don't know enough about the case to say.
     
  3. jethro21

    jethro21

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    859
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2003
    Location:
    arizona
    In Arizona, the legal definition of assault doesn't make any such stipulation as your gut. Your gut is part of what is wrong with our society- everyone gets a trophy, everyone wins, safe space, stress card etc. If you choose to assault someone you should be subject to the course of the law.

    13-1203. Assault; classification

    A. A person commits assault by:

    1. Intentionally, knowingly or recklessly causing any physical injury to another person; or

    2. Intentionally placing another person in reasonable apprehension of imminent physical injury; or

    3. Knowingly touching another person with the intent to injure, insult or provoke such person.

    B. Assault committed intentionally or knowingly pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 1 is a class 1 misdemeanor. Assault committed recklessly pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 1 or assault pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 2 is a class 2 misdemeanor. Assault committed pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 3 is a class 3 misdemeanor.
     
  4. jethro21

    jethro21

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    859
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2003
    Location:
    arizona
    One more thought, a private citizen couldn't have acted as the officer did because they are a (wait for it...) private citizen. If a private citizen came into my house uninvited I could legally defend myself (castle doctrine).

    As law enforcement we go to citizen's homes all the time and because of the circumstances we have a legal right to be there, despite the homeowner's wishes. That doesn't give them the right to assault us nor to be absent any consequence from their choices.
     
    firefighter4215 and msu_grad_121 like this.
  5. msu_grad_121

    msu_grad_121 BOOSH

    Messages:
    3,860
    Likes Received:
    905
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Location:
    NW Burbs
    Good luck trying to explain that to those in this forum only looking to troll and assured of the unjustified superiority of their position.

    It's been said before, and I believe it, everyone wants cops to be treated just like everyone else, until the issue of higher standards comes up, then a cop is suddenly not the same as a regular citizen. Ridiculous.
     
  6. Burgers Allday

    Burgers Allday

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    There is a consequence: criminal liability. No one is arguing against that.

    The issue is whether there should be civil liability, too.

    This raises a sort of secondary question: are there so few civil assault claims (more generally, tort claims) by police officers against private citizens because of tradition, or are there so few assault claims like this because of some legal barrier or impediment.
     
  7. Burgers Allday

    Burgers Allday

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    we are not talking about criminal liability for assault on this thread. Everyone agrees that Quintonio could have been charged criminally for assault had he lived.

    Rather, we are discussing civil liability here.

    It is confusing because assault is both a crime and a tort in pretty much every US jurisdiction.
     
  8. jethro21

    jethro21

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    859
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2003
    Location:
    arizona
    The reason my department strongly discourages (they won't support in any fashion at all) suing criminals is because it creates an impression they don't want the public to have of cops, which I get. It is the same reason my department discourages (nearly forbids) having Section 8 and DES benefits removed from people after we serve warrants and charge them with drug sales, aggravated assaults etc. Public impression is what drives that decision.

    Litigation is simply another way to try and punish an officer. I have been sued, after a justified shooting where the bad (dead) guy pointed a gun at us. They didn't get the million they sued for, but the city settled for an amount that make it worth it to the scumbag's family.

    Consider the mental stress this causes the officer- when you are served paperwork that lists you, your wife, your home and property as part of the suit, for a case in which the bad guy tried to kill YOU.

    I have a partner who had a guy with an aggravated assault warrant fight with him, causing him to tear a tendon in his thumb. Surgery, days off for recovery, overtime and extra duty wages all lost, not to mention a permanent loss of some mobility. Shouldn't he be allowed some recourse? That guys didn't have to fight him, he simply had to give up, right? Did he have a right to resist?

    If the bad guys in the last 2 shootings I was involved in had more than 2 nickels to rub together, suing would have been worth it.
     
  9. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

    Messages:
    18,658
    Likes Received:
    4,593
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
    Hooray for Police Officer Rialmo. I have been saying for many, many years that LEOs should be suing. In some jurisdictions, LEOs have a higher legal standard to meet (to have a successful civil lawsuit) because LE assumes a higher risk where one may get injured. We need to change the laws in those jurisdictions.

    In jurisdictions where that laws/restrictions are not present, then by all means, sue. The BG being arrested/encountered has no legal right to resist arrest. Anything the BG does that is beyond what's legally allowed by law is intentional tort. Or at the least, reckless and illegal behavior.
     
    Ohio Cop likes this.
  10. OLY-M4gery

    OLY-M4gery

    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    524
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2001
    Location:
    Southern WI
    Not sure if serious.

    1) Most criminal defendants are "judgement proof". Meaning they have no assets.

    2) Police officers injured on duty fall under the "fireman's rule". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireman's_rule

    3) On duty police officers are covered by worker's comp. If an officer sued someone, and prevailed, as a result of an incident that resulted in an injury, the worker's comp fund may be entitled to some or all of any civil suit settlements.
     
    Bruce M likes this.
  11. Burgers Allday

    Burgers Allday

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Why do you think Rialmo is countersuing, despite these reasons not to?
     
  12. BL33D 4 M3

    BL33D 4 M3 SDMF

    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Location:
    Chicago/North Burbs
    It is my understanding that there is growing resentment and frustration at CPD that the city is too quick to settle for large sums in racially charged use of force cases, even when complaints are not sustained. I think this move is an effort to outmaneuver the "ghetto lottery"winners.
     
  13. Burgers Allday

    Burgers Allday

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Interesting answer.

    I would like to see this case go to trial.

    My own guess (not that anyone asked) is that the countersuit is being brought because an innocent bystander was killed. Countersuit is probably made a a vehicle to reinforce the police position that shooting an innocent bystander was Quintonio's fault and not Officer Rialmo's.
     
  14. BL33D 4 M3

    BL33D 4 M3 SDMF

    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Location:
    Chicago/North Burbs
    As an aside...is your name a reference to your occupation? Just a guess.
     
  15. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

    Messages:
    18,658
    Likes Received:
    4,593
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
    Because he has a legal right to? Think of that woman (I forget her name) who sued McDonalds for coffee that was too hot. At the time, everyone scoffed at what she was doing. Turns out, her case started the consumer protectionism movement.
     
  16. as400guy1

    as400guy1

    Messages:
    6,443
    Likes Received:
    5,107
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    The city has been throwing the CPD under the bus for quite some time now. Now the state seems to be joining in.
     
  17. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    36,362
    Likes Received:
    9,472
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2003
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    They are not alone in that behavior. The "Settlement Before Riots Syndrome" has infected many jurisdictions.