Couple changing locks on newly purchased home held @ gunpoint by neighbors

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Gallium, Apr 25, 2012.

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  1. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    Cliff notes: (everything here is "allegedly, since I weren't there, and the media is a spawn of the devil and fecal bacteria).

    1. THEIR SON purchased this previously foreclosed home.

    2. They (Mr. & Mrs. Kalonji) drove out there to change the locks. They say they were following up on the advice given by the (their) real estate agent, to change the locks.

    3. A neighbor (Mr. and Mr. Canoles) and his teenage son saw them fiddling with the locks and held them at gunpoint with long guns and demanded proof of ownership.

    4. They had no papers to prove they or their son owned the house. They claimed the house belonged to their son, and asked the neighbors (holding them at gunpoint) to call their son. They also say that they feared they (the door fiddlers) were about to be robbed by the gun toting neighbors.

    5. The police were called, and dispatched. On arrival they asked the couple to show proof of ownership. They were unable to do so. They were arrested, handcuffed, and booked on charges of loitering and prowling.

    6. Mr. Canoles (the neighbor with the gun) says the police commended him on his actions.

    7. Four days later charges against the door fiddlers were dropped; charges were filed against the gun-toters: Agg. assault, false imprisonment & criminal trespass.

    Mr. Canoles is confused as to why he is being charges, and what charges could possibly stick, as (paraphrased to avoid copyright bull**** issues) he felt it was a 2A issue, and that out in the country they look after their own.


    Link: http://www.ajc.com/news/newton-county-neighbors-charged-1424231.html
     
  2. series1811

    series1811 Enforcerator. CLM

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    At least they are still alive.

    Owning a gun doesn't make you qualified to be the police any more than owning a tool set makes you qualified to rebuild an engine.

    Pity more people don't understand this.
     

  3. eracer

    eracer Where's my EBT?

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    What did they think they were going to do, shoot them?

    You get a license plate and a description, then you call the cops.
     
  4. Yang332

    Yang332

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    Should've been good witnesses. Call it in a suspicious with details on them and what they are doing.

    If they've would've been smart about it, they would not be in this situation.
     
  5. DustyJacket

    DustyJacket Directiv 10-289

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    Years ago, I saw 2 people (not my neighbors) kick in the neighbor's basement window.

    I called the police who showed up, questioned the 'suspects' and discovered they were the neighbor's distant relatives with permission to be there, and they locked the keys in the house.

    That is the way these things are best handled.
     
  6. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    The Canoles were arrested for false imprisonment? They held the couple at gun point and refused to let them go until LE showed up? Yeah, that would be a problem. Where I'm at, that's a 'citizens arrest.' And a citizen's arrest is only allowed if the citizen knew absolutely, 110-percent certain, that a crime occurred, and the same certainty the party they've arrested committed the crime.

    I would have carried my handgun with me (unobtrusively) and called 9-1-1 before going out to meet the couple. And if they turned around to leave, I wouldn't have drew my gun and held them at gunpoint. Just get a description of the couple and the license plate of their car.

    Guess things are going to be a little awkward, during the warm weather, after the son moves in next door. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  7. hotrodcummins12v

    hotrodcummins12v

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    I'm not sure if Bubba and Bubba Jr. had any more brains than teeth... Well at least they won't need an alarm system with neighbors like that.

    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  8. Wake_jumper

    Wake_jumper Don't Jump!

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    Not exatly the Welcome Wagon was it.

    But, the Kalonji’s made a huge mistake hiring an attorney and going after their new neighbors. They should have been grateful that they were moving into an area where neighbors look out for each other. Now, they have made a mortal enemy of their next door neighbors. Neighbors who will probably end up in jail, have huge attorney bills, and a felony conviction (bye bye guns).
     
  9. Dexters

    Dexters

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    Mr. & Mrs. Kalonji should drop the charges and thank the neighbors.

    The neighbors were looking out for the 'hood and their new house. Also, if the neighbors were vindictive they could trash the Kalonji home while they are away.
     
  10. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    But what about the neighbor's 2nd A rights???? :faint:

    I think it's going to be a bit more than awkward. If the neighbors are convicted on the most serious of those charges, they are going to lose lose lose those 2A "rights".



    So many what if's with this situation.


    • If the parents of the new owner were carrying guns, and shot the neighbors, in the end, they would probably have been exonerated in court (if they survived). It is not up to a neighbor to challenge someone to offer proof of residence.
    I am amazed by the wide chasm between what is reasonable, pragmatic and logical; compared to what people do. YOU WOULD THINK that after all the furor over Zimmerman vs Martin people would stop for a second, grab a pencil, sharpen it, and attempt to connect a few logical dots before acting on impulse.


    IF the gun-toters had shot these two people dead, we would have had another set of epic threads on who was right, and who was wrong.


    Yes, in this case the lines are more clearly marked. The folks who were initially detained have an abundantly solid legitimate reason to be where they were, the gun toters did not. I'm not sure why THESE gun toters would not consider other realities than their own.


    -G
     
  11. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    Well, when I was posting, I did wonder what skin colour both parties had.

    And I also assumed the 'parents' were probably an older (50s or older) couple. And they probably had some appropriate tools and sets of spare locks (or at least spare cylinders) to back up their story.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  12. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    I'm sure you and I would feel the same exact way you propose if your soon to be neighbors held you at gunpoint, and chose to ignore your pleas to call your son for clarification.

    Not only would I seek to file charges against them, I would seek to find relief in civil court against them.

    If when I moved into my place my neighbors brought those actions against me I would probably now be typing from my neighbors' den, which would have long been an addition to my house.

    Sorry, but yes that is what I would do.
     
  13. Dexters

    Dexters

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    Legal bill yes, convicted - I don't think so. If I were on the jury and with only the info on the article I'd wouldn't convict them. There was no malice or benefit for the neighbors.

    I wouldn't like someone holding a gun on me to be sure. But, the neighbors were looking out for my son's property. That is a good sign. Put it off as a misunderstanding and move on.
     
  14. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    As you can see, that was deliberately left outside of my narration.

    But it's easy enough for you and I to visualize how race on either side could drive the actions of the gun-toters. :)

    -G
     
  15. Dexters

    Dexters

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    Calls to the son for clarification by the neighbors or police is meaningless. How does anyone know the son owns the house or if he is just part of the robbery team?
     
  16. Wake_jumper

    Wake_jumper Don't Jump!

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    I'm glad I don't live in your neighborhood.
     
  17. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    No sir, unlawfully detaining your neighbors at gunpoint is not your 2nd Amendment right, as you are now learning.
     
  18. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    Yes, they certainly are. But in the grand scheme of things the people who pulled guns have now been rightfully charged with


    • criminal trespass
    • false imprisonment and
    • aggravated assault
    If they could take the time to get their guns and confront people who were not on THEIR property, they could have easily done a bunch of other illogical, meaningless crap - like made a phone call. I've not advocated for the police to make a call to the son - that is not within the scope of their LE responsibilities...but hey, police officers have run into burning buildings without turnout gear to save people, and helped people with flat tires too, and that is not a LE responsibility.



    One of my neighbors across the street is selling their house (kids are gone off, and a 5bedroom house is too big for the 2 of them). As good neighbors we already have met the folks who are closing on the deal (they wanted to meet a few neighbors, as they have kids). The last family that moved in here (Nov 2010), we had a barbeque at the house adjacent to the house they were moving into in late October before they closed, and had a "meet and greet" where they could get some face time with their future neighbors.


    That is fair. I've lived in crapholes, nice apartments, and now I live in a very private, exclusive semi-gated non HOA community neighborhood where mostly everyone here is a solid neighbor with what I have seen to be good judgement. I don't have, nor wish to have any neighbors who think it's a good idea to approach burglars at gun point. So yeah, if this is your thought process we can call it an even break, and you can stay where you are, and I can stay where I am....
     
  19. Dexters

    Dexters

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    ? It doesn't follow?

    But, they didn't.
     
  20. Ay Dios Mio

    Ay Dios Mio

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    That is a seriously frightening story.
     
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