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Count your hits!

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by sportshooter, Sep 14, 2002.

  1. sportshooter

    sportshooter .com or .info Millennium Member

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    Everyone should know this by now, but since I recently got bitten by it, I figured I'd toss it out again. GSSF matches can be very friendly and you sometimes forget to look out for yourself as much as you should.

    Typically, I follow the RO as the targets are scored and listen to what is called to the scorer. I've fallen into a pattern of just verifying the number of points down and checking the times. On the whole, it seems to have worked just fine and leaves me knowing my score.

    That doesn't work if the number of As or Bs was mis-written. I had a recent score sheet go in where, it turns out, the total hits shown for a target was 5, not 6. The missing hit is automatically counted as a miss (even though a "Miss" isn't marked on the sheet). I'm happy to say that it has been a long time since I've missed a GSSF target.

    I left the range knowing I was 6 points down only to find the results come out with me being 16 points down. Cost me a third place finish and $50. I completely accept the responsibility as I initialed an incorrect score sheet.

    I filed a correction via the GSSF web site (expecting that it was a clerical error) and they were very quick to get back to me, explaining that the target only showed 5 hits scored. I appreciate that even if they believe me, they open the flood gates if they start accepting post match corrections with no reasonable verification.

    While I shouldn't have been presented an incorrect score sheet to begin with, I know it is a long day for the ROs (I've been one), and it is ultimately the shooter's responsibility to verify the sheet. From now on, even if it hurts the ROs feelings, I'll be checking all their math carefully.

    Millard
     
  2. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    Millard,

    RO's are human, and as such, make an error every now and then. It is prudent to double check everything.
     

  3. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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    Millard,

    I know the feeling. Two years ago in the NJ match, my Glock M score sheets got switched. I didn't get any misses, but my Stock score went on my UL sheet and the UL score went on the Stock sheet. I was counting my hits but never thought about the sheet. It was not figured out until a call to GSSF and some back tracking. I also accepted the responsibility that I signed the score sheet.
    Unfortunatly for me the RO's could not tell the difference between a UL gun with a PDP5 on top and a stock gun. If they had been alert, I would not have been able to shoot the UL gun in a Stock class. But hey, mistakes are made, I made one by not verifying the sheets. That is one I never made again.

    My loss for this mistake you ask? It cost me a gun in the UL class. I won the Stock class (would have won even without using the UL gun)but came in 2nd or 3rd in UL. If the sheets were correct, I would have had a double win. (That was back when you could win 2 guns if you won the class)

    Moral is to keep track and pay attention to your game. ;)
     
  4. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    Millard has it right. It pays to keep your own sheet and check it with the RO's before you sign anything. Be nice to the ROs and check everything on the sheet, I mean everything. It doesn't hurt to have one of your buds check it with you. Be nice, but check everything! ;)
     
  5. TrooperDan

    TrooperDan

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    Yeap, I agree. if fact I just had a disagreement between my personal record and the offical score sheet at Statesville. I wrote down my hits as the RO called them out but I didn't verify what was on the sheet when I signed it.. I heard one "D" called out but the sheet had three. I honestly don't remember what I shot but it was still my best score ever!

    I've been thinking about taking a camera and snapping a picture of each target. I'm more interested in analyzing my groups than keeping score. Someone suggested that some RO's might feel taking pictures of the targets was an insult.. what do you guys think?

    Dan in NC, still pround of his 118 in Statesville;i ;i ;i
     
  6. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    I spend 300.00 to 500.00 to make a match, they can have their feelings hurt! We actually came to Statesville prepared to take video and still photos. I had a very unpleasant experience at Richmond, I didn't want another. I let it go on the video but checked everysheet VERY closely. It's not that I expect anything to be wrong but after three different catagories show up wrong at Richmond and my comparision sheet shows very different information, I don't intend to let it happen again.
     
  7. glockNstein

    glockNstein

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    I concur with everything that has been stated. I have had a similar situation, where my hits were scored different than what I recorded myself. Upon verification from GSSF, after questioning the score, I had signed it as they reported, therefore my record's were incorrect.(I had scored a hit as a C instead of a D, and the 3 second difference cost me $75).

    Right now I only shoot 2 categories, but I verify the category, my name, and all the recorded hits on the scoresheet. I place a check mark next to my name and category, and also initial any "scribbles", or changed hits on the scoresheet. I also ask the RO to initial any changes. I have had more than a couple of RO's say they like the idea of initialing the changes. In Statesville at the 5 to Glock, there were at least 3 changes on one scoresheet. One of the RO's had a problem with the scoring, but I just "suggested" that he please check again, and he rechecked the target and made the corrections.

    I also left 1 plate standing out of 4 strings, and the RO had scored it as
    6,0
    6,0
    6,1
    6,0
    Showing all plates knocked down, with one standing.(Impossible)
    Without the correction done on the spot, how would this have been scored? (Just wondering)

    Anyway that's my $.02 worth.

    [​IMG]
    Here I go again!!!
     
  8. 21 shooter

    21 shooter

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    Having been an RO at Statesville, I know that at times things are busier than they appear to be. I agree that the shooter should look at the targets and the score sheet to make sure everything matches up. Even better, have the RO and the shooter make sure the score sheet and the shooter's sheet match each other. Some may want to, some not. I have thought about taking pictures of my targets, but without them I still have plausible deniability. ;f "Are you going to believe me, or thay lying picture?";g
     
  9. GJM89

    GJM89

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    Just another 2 cents worth, This year at Jackson my M scores were switch,again as previously stated it was my own fault for not double checking,after ROing for 2 days I was a little tired and I forget to double check the sheets,trust me it will never happen again. At Richmond my 5 to for Stockmeister was marked on my U/L sheet and the mistake was caught by the RO,who changed the number and wording on the scoring sheet to reflect that it was really my Stockmeister score. He initialed it and so did I,also changed the other sheet.Also, to make sure there was no confusion I advised the GSSF personel of the changes prior to going to the next stage of fire (where I was duly hooked and landed by Phil), and spoke to them again after I had finished shooting and the scoring sheets were turned in,just wanted to make sure there was no confusion. ;Q Of course if all of your U/L scores were written down on your Stockmeister score sheet, Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,;Q ;Q ,(only kidding). Jerry, would you please give me back the video you took of me at Statesvillle ;P ;P ;f
     
  10. Sniper 7.62

    Sniper 7.62

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    To me the shooter IE you should walk with the RO "EVERY" time at every match to make sure that all your hits count, It is good pratices for you that could make a diffrence from winning or a loosing IMO.
    At Statesville at the 5 to Glock there was a young women working the score sheet with Island girl and at the end of scoring my sheet was just a little messy cause she was learing how to score the targets so what I did was put my name near the scrible to say I know that this is right and I told her she was doing a fine job and that by the end of the day she would be a Pro at this.
    Remember it your responabity to make sure that you were scored correctly cause we all make mistaks some times so enjoy the shoot and the people but when you are done with you string and it comes time to score you targets GO WITH THE RO. IMO Sniper
     
  11. TJC

    TJC "No Compromise" Millennium Member

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  12. mike from philly

    mike from philly

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    Having spent all day yesterday being the recorder for my USPSA squad, I can say that occasionally its hard to get it right. People are talking around you, the pasters are in your way, the scorer misreads the score, I was tired, wet, and hungry etc. Its tough. I hope that I got the scores right.... cause nobody seemed to check. We didn't do the signing thingy. I can see how sloppy habits from club matches get continued into the major matches (GSSF, State Championsips, etc.)

    I think the best thing to do is advise the RO's at the begining that you want to sign off on the score sheet BEFORE they start pasting. That way any discrepancies can be resolved accurately and in real time. To make this happen, it important that ONLY the shooter, RO, and scorer go down range. That way, you can be sure that someone isn't pasting behind the scoring. It happens when a RO team gets in a groove. Only when the "ALL SCORED" is yelled do the pasters come forward. I'm of the opinion that this probally should be a GSSF hard rule but it may slow the pace of the match.

    I was a RO in Jacksonville and I remember one guy handing me something like 20 score sheets all at once (5 family members each shooting 4, WOW). I put his score sheets in the stack and then called the first one. He then got pissy with me that the first one shouldn't have been the first one; that it should have been the eighth one, the second one was the 10th, the third one was the first, last name first, middle name second, first name third blah blah blah. Luckly, I was in a happy mood and I calmy told him that I'm happy to call it in any order he wants and that I could use his help getting it in the proper order. We stopped shooting and laid the sheets on the table and assembled the order. To me the lesson is:

    1) Turn in the score sheets in the order you want to shoot them (first on top)

    2) If you are shooting multiples, confirm the order in the shooting queue pile.

    3) And as a final check, just confirm with the scorer the order once agian.

    When I see multiples, I, as a RO, also confirmed the order ... actually several times before giving the sheets to the scorer. It probally made me look like a dumby but I did want to do it right and save the scorer some hassle.
     
  13. PhilipD

    PhilipD 17L/CarverMount

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    The RO's (there mistake) got my M score sheets mixed up in Waldorf in 2001. I did not catch it and signed it (my mistake). It cost me the win in U/L and my first clean match with my scope gun. Now I take the time to look at everything on the score sheet.