Joined
·
1,778 Posts
Competition spring kit creates an unsafe condition
Maybe this has been dicussed before, I don't know. I have a new Gen4 G19. I did a trigger job using a popular connector and competition spring kit, which included a heavy trigger spring and reduced striker spring. Trigger pull is around 3.25 pounds.
I found by accident that my trigger does not return compeletely forward to lock in the Glock trigger safety. If, you rack the gun without your finger on the trigger, all is well and the trigger returns to its forward most position and the Glock trigger safety does its job. Now, with an empty gun, simulate firing a round by pulling the trigger and holding it back while racking the slide. Now, take your finger off the trigger. Did your trigger return to a forward position locking in the Glock trigger safety? Mine doesn't.
How many of us draw , fire a few rounds and return our gun to a holster and repeat? If the trigger safety is not properly set, it wouldn't take much to set off a round.
I found by accident that my trigger does not return compeletely forward to lock in the Glock trigger safety. If, you rack the gun without your finger on the trigger, all is well and the trigger returns to its forward most position and the Glock trigger safety does its job. Now, with an empty gun, simulate firing a round by pulling the trigger and holding it back while racking the slide. Now, take your finger off the trigger. Did your trigger return to a forward position locking in the Glock trigger safety? Mine doesn't.
How many of us draw , fire a few rounds and return our gun to a holster and repeat? If the trigger safety is not properly set, it wouldn't take much to set off a round.
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Joined
·
6,834 Posts
There is no difference between generations on how the firing pin spring and the coil trigger spring affect the Glock firing mechanism. What the OP described is not a Gen4 issue.
Firing pin spring compression as the slide goes fully forward after the firing pin lug has engaged the rear of the trigger bar cruciform is THE principle force that pulls the trigger bar forward. Acting AGAINST the trigger bar's forward motion during this time is the coil trigger spring. This further makes the total force available to fully reset the trigger bar and trigger fully forward after firing even less. The OP has completely sabotaged the function of the pistol.
1. The trigger no longer resets fully due to the combined effects of the weak firing pin spring and the stronger coil trigger spring.
2. Cartridge ignition is far less reliable due to the effect of the weak firing pin spring.
About the only other malfunction the OP could instigate is using a weak RSA so that the slide itself doesn't go fully forward.
There are very valid reasons that there are NO Glock OEM coil trigger springs except the standard 5-lbf spring, nor Glock OEM firing pin springs weaker than the standard 5.5-lbf spring. ALL reputable aftermarket spring makers explicitly warn that ALL of their off-standard springs are NOT FOR DUTY USE. In other words, they are FOR RANGE-TOY USE only.
Firing pin spring compression as the slide goes fully forward after the firing pin lug has engaged the rear of the trigger bar cruciform is THE principle force that pulls the trigger bar forward. Acting AGAINST the trigger bar's forward motion during this time is the coil trigger spring. This further makes the total force available to fully reset the trigger bar and trigger fully forward after firing even less. The OP has completely sabotaged the function of the pistol.
1. The trigger no longer resets fully due to the combined effects of the weak firing pin spring and the stronger coil trigger spring.
2. Cartridge ignition is far less reliable due to the effect of the weak firing pin spring.
About the only other malfunction the OP could instigate is using a weak RSA so that the slide itself doesn't go fully forward.
There are very valid reasons that there are NO Glock OEM coil trigger springs except the standard 5-lbf spring, nor Glock OEM firing pin springs weaker than the standard 5.5-lbf spring. ALL reputable aftermarket spring makers explicitly warn that ALL of their off-standard springs are NOT FOR DUTY USE. In other words, they are FOR RANGE-TOY USE only.
Joined
·
983 Posts
I sat down and took my gun apart today. Replacing the aftermarket trigger spring with the Glock OEM trigger spring did not fix the problem. The blame appears to fall completely on the use of a reduced power striker spring.
Joined
·
6,834 Posts
So...did you take another five minutes and install the OEM FIRING PIN SPRING?
Glock considers the stock OEM 5.5-lbf (SILVER) firing pin spring to be the minimum required for reliable ignition of typically available cartridges. Glock makes no FP springs that are weaker, but does make two FPS (not sold by Glock USA) that are stronger for pistols using ammo with hard primers: 6.3-lbf (RED) and 7.0-lbf (BLUE).
Aftermarket FP springs are typically 4.0, 4.5, or 5.0-lbf. I suspect you installed a 4.0-lbf spring, which almost assures the pistol will be unreliable. If yours is a range toy, who cares? Nothing matters for those game gizmos. But if it is intended for ANY serious use, it is likely that visual intimidation by brandishing
is the only function that it will reliably serve until the OEM springs are installed.You may have a firing pin spring issue but It is very common knowledge with people doing trigger work that the 6# trigger spring causes reset issues in Gen 4 Glocks with a reduced power firing pin spring.
I quit using the 6# trigger spring in Gen 4 Glocks shortly after the Gen 4 Glocks became available.
Yeah, 4 pounds is way too light for the OEM striker. The general rule here is that you have to reduce the striker weight when using reduced power striker springs. It is easy to foul up when balancing out the trigger spring, striker spring and recoil spring. Gen 4s are also a bit more picky about it than Gen 3s.
Joined
·
3,766 Posts
As said in a previous post, it all depends on the primers used.
Not all brand primers are the same. Some are harder than others. Remington and CCI are harder than Winchester. If you reload and always use softer primers you will probably have no problems using a lighter FP spring.
If you use the pistol primarily for self defense and use factory ammo, you may experience a light primer strike on a hard primer and a malfunction of the round that you are depending on to save you or a loved ones life
Not all brand primers are the same. Some are harder than others. Remington and CCI are harder than Winchester. If you reload and always use softer primers you will probably have no problems using a lighter FP spring.
If you use the pistol primarily for self defense and use factory ammo, you may experience a light primer strike on a hard primer and a malfunction of the round that you are depending on to save you or a loved ones life
Joined
·
12,028 Posts
When I buy aftermarket springs I usually buy 12 at a time and not in a kit. Often your results that you are experiencing is the norm, about 30% of the trigger springs (6#) do not allow a reset. I buy the 4# striker spring and a weaker safety plunger spring. My results using factory Federal ammunition and Federal primers in reloading ,allow 100% ignition averaging 12,000 rounds the last 7 years. As you have been warned not to use for carry, I do and feel quite comfortable in my short and long term results. I use these now in my 17's, 26's and 30s'.(7) in total.
Joined
·
16,903 Posts
HST is made with Federal primers.
Joined
·
12,028 Posts
Yup, its what I carry.
Joined
·
3,766 Posts
Federal primers are known to be the softest.
Thing is, not everyone always knows about some primers being harder than others, then make mods to their FP springs and use whatever the new hotness factory round all their friends on the internet are using and get failures due to harder primers that their gun doesn't like.
If you are aware of this and have fired X amount through your gun and are confident of them firing every time in your gun, then all is well. What works in yours may not for someone else, they need to make sure and be confident that it does.
Thing is, not everyone always knows about some primers being harder than others, then make mods to their FP springs and use whatever the new hotness factory round all their friends on the internet are using and get failures due to harder primers that their gun doesn't like.
If you are aware of this and have fired X amount through your gun and are confident of them firing every time in your gun, then all is well. What works in yours may not for someone else, they need to make sure and be confident that it does.
Joined
·
12,028 Posts
Yes, this is why soooo many are cautioning people not to explore. I have been reloading 49 years, competing for 30 and on this earth for 64, I do not know it all nor suggest it, and better ways and materials will be available, hopefully I am not too old to investigate.
Joined
·
16,903 Posts
Well, I've had about 150,000 Federals go off with light FP springs, and no problems. Even high primers go off. I've only been on earth for 51 years, but I do know there is no sure thing. There is always a reason for your carry gun to fail. The likelihood I'll need to use a gun defensively is probably negligibly small. The likelihood I'll need my match pistol to go off is 100%.
So if you don't know what you're doing, figure it out. Learn how to make your stuff run properly. And expect the worst.
And don't let people tell you OE/factory stuff is better. Know your gear, and make it work for your purposes.
So if you don't know what you're doing, figure it out. Learn how to make your stuff run properly. And expect the worst.
And don't let people tell you OE/factory stuff is better. Know your gear, and make it work for your purposes.
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
