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Discussion in 'GSSF' started by DannyR, Jul 19, 2004.
Please post your stories and photos here.
I have attended the Coeur d'Alene shoot for the past two years. Last year I arrived late on Sunday evening. The event was still going on for a few more hours but things were winding down. I thought this explained why the shoot was running so poorly. The events were moving slow and things were very disorganized. This year I arrived on Saturday at about 11 am. It was worse. The events were moving so slow that I did not get done until 3 pm. There were not that many people shooting and the ranges stood idle for long periods of time while the RO attempted to figure out what was going on. While I was waiting for more than a hour for 4 people to shoot the glock m I overheard several people state that they would not be returning to shoot Coer d' Alene because of the organization problems and the long waits. I could have understood the longer waits if there were tons of shooters but for the numbers I saw I think the shoot proceeded very slowly.
Maybe they'll ship in the INDY crew next year???
I don't mind if it is a reasonable wait but 4 shooters in one hour? Come on. Besides if other people are noticing the slowness it leads me to believe that it is not just me. I have attended GSSF matches for three years in Oregon, Washington, and Idaho. The Coeur d'Alene shoot is by far the worst even though the Roseburg and Shelton shoot had many more participants.
Since I RO'ed the CDA I can shed some light on the problem/problems/
This was the first year that Glock brought up the PDA (netpads/electronic scoring system). Needless to say it created havoc!!
The R.O. had about 5 minutes of practice time and then were turned loose with them. Picture it this way. Its Monday morning and you arrive to work and find a new software system you have never seen or used. You are given 5 minute of instruction and then you expected to be as productive as you were on friday.
I do believe that once everybody gets use to the netpads all GSSF matches will go faster and smoother.
I am going to the Shelton match next month and I am sure that I will be just like everybody else and get upset at the wait. Having been there, done that I will understand the feelings that the RO's are going thru.
I have been to all of the GSSF matches at the Fernan Rod & Gun Club in Coeur dAlene and I have not been aware of the disorganization that you mentioned; just the opposite. Before putting on their first GSSF match, some of the CDA club members traveled to the Oregon match to observe, so they would know how to do it. That first Coeur dAlene match was a great success, and, in my opinion, all the others have also been successful.
It would be a shame if you missed the fun of the match next year. I am sure the match will run much more smoothly now that the ROs have learned the new PDA scoring system.
Alice and I shot the match on Sunday and we zipped right through without any delays. We have shot at other matches where the PDA scoring system was being used for the first time, and it appears that there is a steep learning curve. In spite of that, I am a fan of PDA scoring. Learning to use the new equipment sometimes causes delays during the match, but the scoring is more accurate, and because the data is entered only once, there is less opportunity for error and the results come out much faster.
I also think the new stage sign-up system is a great improvement over the paper-shuffle of past matches.
I guess I should have shot on Sunday because Saturday was painfully slow. The sign in sheets were scrapped and not even used after about the first hour of the match. I know because I got there at 8:45am and didn't get done till 5:00 pm. I shot my first stage at 9:45am and then didn't shoot again till 12:00 noon. I realize that they were having problems with the PDA's and that most of the RO's did not know how to run them but 8 hours to shoot 4 catagories is a little much. I can normally shoot 4 catagories by 1:00pm when starting at 9:00 and that is taking my time and having lunch. There were RO's standing down range at the targets trying to figure out the PDA's instead of getting out of the way and letting the next shooter shoot. All they had to do is write down the times for the next shooter if they weren't ready and then enter it later.
If CDA and the RO's had been on the ball they would have downloaded the instruction manual that is on the GSSF web site on how to run the PDA's and studied it before the match. I did this and put it in a notebook to study before the Roseburg match so that I would have been ready but they were not used at Roseburg.
The one bright spot was at the plates as they were going through fast. I never waited more that 2 shooters before I got to shoot and that was with only one plate rack being run all day. I guess that RO read the instructions.
It seemed that it was a two prong problem on Saturday. One, not knowing how to use the new technology and two, they seemed to be real short on staff for the match. They didn't have enough people to run two plate racks and in the past they ran three 5 to Glock ranges but only had two on Sat.
I kind of felt sorry for the RO's as it was a struggle but they just need to get up to speed and take the initiative on themselves and learn this new technology before the match and not 8 hours into the match. There is no excuse for not reading the info. on the GSSF website and coming a little more prepared to run the match.
With all the problems I saw and the long wait's, will I be back to shoot in the future? Of course I will. It was still fun and all the down time allowed me to meet some new shooters from Phoenix , AZ., the Siverts. Would I rather being mowing the lawn or shooting and watching shooting, it's a no brainer?;Q ;Q
This was the first time I had ever shot at CDA and I can see where all the confusion came from. I saw and heard that they were short RO's, there were many problems with the PDA's, and one of the biggest problems was the constant complaining that people were doing causing the RO's to stop and get things resolved before starting again. I saw one person complaining that they were not up next (several times at all the stages)causing the RO's to stop and explain how things worked not only making it longer before they got to shoot but also delayed everyone else everytime they complained. I still had fun even though I got there before 9:00am and finished my 2 classes around 4:00pm. I do hope people are a little more patient at Shelton (at least I will not have to drive 7 hrs home after this match).
My family helped RO the match on both days. We only had 9 range officers to run the match. That is the smallest crew since I have starting helping. Saturday ran much slower than Sunday. I worked the plates on Saturday and we had a very short wait. Some off the other stages are more time consuming to score and they did get bottlenecked. We had a problem with the PDA's locking up. The one I used would lock up when it went to sleep. This caused a slow down and frustration for many shooters as I needed to restart the PDA. I can assure you that next years match will run more smoothly and we will have more range officers.
I THINK WE ALL SHOULD BLAME TK.....HAHA
I have attended CDA since the first match was held at Fernan with the exception of the past couple of years.
One thing I did notice on Saturday as I waited 4-1/2 hrs(10am to 2:30pm) just to shoot 1 stage(5 to Glock) as the PDAs were giving the ROs fits. Some of the shooters took total advantage of this. What I saw is shooters went to each stage(at 9am) and signed up to shoot. Then when they arrived at that stage, demanded that they shoot because there name was on the list first. This slowed everything down. Sunday was a different story as I arrived at 9am and shot the remaining stages in about 1hr only because I stood and talked with some of the shooters I have not seen in several years.
I was not disappointed in the way CDA was run as mush as I was in the people just wanting to argue and complain to the ROs. Several even tried to argue with Scott Gilberstson when he came to "5 to Glock" to straighten things out because they could not have things there way and shoot before everyone else that was waiting.
Sunday the only complaint I heard was from one RO that her shirt was to big(lol)
Guess I am missing something about the complaint of: Shooters signing in at the 3 stages and then demanding that they shoot in the order that they signed in. That is the way it is supposed to work. They tell you when you check in at the match to go sign in at the 3 stages you want to shoot then start at whatever stage you want and the RO's are supposed to call you up to be "In the hole", "on Deck" and "up to Shoot" in the order that everyone signed in at each stage.
Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying, please feel free to clear this up if I am not reading it correctly.
My apologies as I should have said it was not everyone, but there were quite a few.
Yes, and that is the way matches were run with paper sign up sheets you handed your sheet in at each stage and started at whatever one you wanted to shoot. If your name was called and you were not at that stage your place was moved to the bottom of the pile. When you did arrive at the stage you let the RO know and your paper was moved to behind the last shooter who checked in. Everyone shot in rotation as they arrived at the stage and that seam to work. That is basicly the way Scott set it up at about noon and said that is how it was always run.
This is not what was happening Saturday morning, at 9am several groups of 2,3, and 4 shooters dispersed(and that was ok) and signed there group at each stage and when they arrived at that stage demanded they shoot ahead of the other shooters that had been waiting in line to shoot a stage just because there name was on the list first. I did not see this on happening on Sunday.
While reading the posts from Bob & others I have found it quite unusual the understanding some folks had about the way the "paper" scored matches were run. Of course I may be wrong here or they do it different down in this part of the world but I always understood your name stayed at the top of the pile until you showed up to shoot. First to sign up & turn in your score sheets got you "rewarded" with being able to walk up & get to shoot "next" whenever you got ready. There was not supposed to be any shuffling or moving of score sheets. That is the way I understood it, that is the way it was explained to us in this part of the world. Now of course, it could be different up north. Maybe y'all didn't want our score sheets getting cold up your way so you moved us down in the pile to keep us warm or something. (that is a joke). If you have always been shuffling score sheets & we have never shuffled them, no wonder folks get upset. If you are used to one way, the other one seems "wrong" no matter which side you are on. I wonder why Scott explained that to you folks & said "that is how it was always run"? I am very curious about this. It also seems the PDA scoring has changed everything. There appears to be no consistency but maybe that will change when they actually are working properly & are present at every match. Hopefully so. I wish the GSSF folks that read these posts (JEL) would respond but they never do. Seems kind of weird. I know she reads them, I see her name online regularly but never a response. Well, for any of you folks from up north that come down here to this part of the world & shoot a match, if it's paper scored, take my advice & turn in your score sheets as quickly as possible if you want to be able to walk up & shoot without a long wait. MLM
While they can and do frequently read the post, they are forbidden by company policy to post. It's not attitude, it's policy.
As I read the earlier post I was wondering how things could be so different from the matches I attend. It almost looks like they use a combination of the two older methods of running the matches. Some of the items mentioned (moving scoresheets in the stack) haven't been with us for 3 or 4 years. As for signing up early and coming back and getting at the end of the line, I've never seen that one.
Yep, I read the posted complaint several times before I made my first post and then after the reply I read them both several more time and I am with you (Fireglock & MLM) totally confused as to what his problem really is. Since Scott started the sign-in sheets at each stage the old days of watching the sheets getting shuffled has been eliminated. Thank You Scott- This has proven to be a great idea that WORKS .
I also noticed that Dale zipped right thru and felt things were running smoothly. If you signed-in at the stage at 9 a.m. you are supposed to shoot before the person that signed-in at 10 a.m. assuming you are both present to shoot and you are NOT supposed to be put on the bottom IF you were not there when they called you.
Well, I am glad to know this part. I just thought they didn't want to get involved. Is this why JEL no longer posts when results are up? That is kind of a shame. Seems the representatives from GSSF would be a good addition to this place. They are the reps & anywhere else they go, people recognize them as glock reps, therefore, I wonder why not here? Oh well, just thinking, I suppose. Thanks for the answer, Fireglock. See y'all later, MLM