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Civil Service V. non-Civil Service

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Rxzruby, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. Rxzruby

    Rxzruby

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    Whats the difference in the 2? besides the testing for promotion.
    Pros V. Cons?
    Why would a department change to the other?
    Looking at police departments in the DFW area of Texas, if this matters.

    personal insight: I have been at the top of performance in my non law enforcement job for the last 7 years and was recently laid-off due to seniority (everyone else has been there for 20-40 years). I have vowed to never put my myself or family in this position again. But then again, maybe this is different or maybe I think to much...
    any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
  2. tc556guy

    tc556guy

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    civil service imposes certain rules for hiring/ firing. Its not simply working at the pleasure of the admins.
    Downside might be that if you make a decision later in life to be an LEO, you are too old for a civil service dept. I know of two guys in my part time non-civil service agency who are in that boat. Good guys, good officers, but too old to lateral to a civil service full time agency.
     

  3. CAcop

    CAcop

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    There really is no such thing as a non civil service police job in CA other than chiefs and THE sheriff.

    The cities actually like civil service because it forces departments and their managers to follow rules when hiring, firing, and discipline. I'll be honest our chief has disciplined or fired people oly to have HR or the city manager overule him. Mostly because he was operating under bad advice from outside sources. That said he has also fired or disciplined people and it has held up because it met the rules HR established.
     
  4. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    You also have to be careful because often, within the same jurisdiction (ie: state employer), there can be LE agencies which are union, and LE agencies where the LEOs are considered "managment" and do not receive full union protection. And both LEOs have the same police powers.

    In my opinion, unions make for smooter sailing over the long run. Not perfect, but smooter sailings.
     
  5. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    I will stick with civil service. You can't be fired for being from the wrong political party or for giving a ticket to the mayor's cousin.
     
  6. JBaird22

    JBaird22

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    Where civil service is in use, it seems the job market is a lot more competitive. Mostly because the chief can't hire just anyone he wants to.

    I'd rather be civil service with union protection than without. Without an association, no one, and I mean no one has your back unless you're paying them.
     
  7. Broke Hoss

    Broke Hoss

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    Civil Service protection is definitely the way to go. Yes as with any set of rules;,sometimes it will work for you; sometimes agains. But atleast you have a set of rules that isn't changing everyday.

    Couple this with a good local union/assn & it can be real nice with both sides having thier needs met.

    Another good thing to look at is if the city/agency your looking at has collective bargining or meet & confer. We are under m&c and it has been really good. It has been amazing how well the assn & city admin have been able to work together. Likely the least advisarial environment in 15-20 years.

    You might look at some of the state wide agencies as well for answers to some of your questions. The ones I know of are Combined Law Enforcement Agency of Texas (CLEAT) & Texas Municipal Police Assnn (TMPA) both have websites.
     
  8. trifecta

    trifecta

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    It is Chapter 143 of the Local Government Code if you want to read what it actually means in Texas. It applies to any city that has adopted it. Also, keep in mind there are city civil service systems(Dallas is the only one I know in DFW).
     
  9. AngryBassets

    AngryBassets Jagenden Übel

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    Here, there's two "types" of departments: "Title 40" (the NJ chapter of law covering this stuff) and "Civil Service".

    Title 40 departments, while your job is secure, can do whatever they want.

    Civil Service departments are supposed to follow rigid guidelines as far as promotions go, but there's a little wiggle room.

    Of course, SOME agencies go over and beyond taking every advantage of those loopholes, however they almost always get smacked in lawsuits...

    Not that I personally know of any crooked, arrogant, over-confident and self important administrators who would do that. :whistling:
     
  10. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

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    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    Civil service protection is good, but trust me, if they want to get rid of you, they will find a way to get rid of you. It just takes a bit more work.
     
  11. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

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    That is the way it is in federal civil service. But, 9 times out of 10 it won't happen unless it is something serious enough, and then it takes a lot of time. I will tell you this though, do your job, do it right, and normally they won't bother you in the first place. Sometimes the the more active of the union local might get hemmed up temporarily, but they ultimately get back pay and reinstatement.
     
  12. Rxzruby

    Rxzruby

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    thanks for the replies.
     
  13. Imnotascoolasu

    Imnotascoolasu

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    Richardson is as well
     
  14. Rxzruby

    Rxzruby

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    Thanks guys.
    i am looking at Flower Mound right now as they are the only ones testing before July!
     
  15. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    "Flower Mound?" :)

    I'm going to google their PD to view their patch.

    Good luck with the process.