Church Security Questions

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by pwinter, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. PeterG

    PeterG

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    We’ve had that same discussion, for scripture guidance I look to 1john 3:16


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  2. FAS1

    FAS1

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    lol. My gift is building the best handgun safes on the planet to keep the kiddos safe, your gun out of a thief's hands, and you armed quickly when needed. :D

    Also, I'm not as young as I use to be, but I am always "in the game" along with the other 5-10% of members that are LTC holders. I'm no expert to give advice or train anyone in security, I'm just more observant than most and I take my personal security seriously.
     
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  3. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    Being skilled can help build confidence, it does not [bring] confidence. If that were true, there would be no skilled cowards. Despite how confident a person is in their own ability, it does not preclude them from choosing a morally objectionable path regarding their duty. Plenty of highly skilled people suffer from poor work ethic, poor morals and perhaps a deficient level of courage and integrity. Skill do not bring those things, its just not that easy.

    Personally, I would not hold out the miniscule example of "bad cops" as a reason to doubt the ability of cops in general. I simply do not subscribe to that kind of logic platform. Sure, there is plenty of emotion in such a thing but emotion is not often a good foundation for well reasoned assessment.
     
  4. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Build confidence or bring confidence, sounds like semantics to me, but I understand your opinion comes form the slant of being LEO & feeling offended when people point out simple truths.
    Yes, LEO are just like the rest of the population, maybe 10% are just ******bags. Why I say it isn't a blanket confirmation of someone's ability that they wear or used to wear a uniform. It is training & skill, imo, all that really matters when it comes to choosing people for an armed security task. You opinion is obviously diff as you come from a diff perspective. No I am not doubting the ability of cops in general as you doubt the ability of the ccw in general. IT is a fact though that the uniform doesn't make the cop.
    Look cops are govt employees, some are good, some great & some just guys putting in until retirement. To deny this is just turning a blind eye. So I don't give props in general to the uniform but to the person & their actions. Yeah totally diff worlds & view points. I do know simple things, I am not seeking gun or tactical skills from a retired anyone unless there is more cred than they wore a uniform. Again think Parkland shooting & the poor LEO response. Trained guys, just not very good or not very motivated.
    Oh yes, a traffic stop/ticket is just that unless there is a fight. It is pretty much tax collection or a reason to stop someone. All those motor guys with radar guns setting up at speed limit changes in the road, yeah tax collection. Sure there is a potential for danger but in general it is tax collecting. You know it, you just don't want to admit it. SO again, there are cops & there are cops. The uniform doesn't make the cop, the cop should make the uniform.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  5. jonb32248

    jonb32248

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    Our security team is also taking into consideration not only safety from a shooting but also fire, earth quake, medical emergency, family disputes, etc.We are upgrading camera's and safety in general. We have inspected our building for places someone can hide, counting of offering and moved them away from main entrances. Removed door feet that hold open outside doors, and have advised the guy who takes the money to the bank to alternate his days and bank branch. Looking into the nursery security. Camera's to be installed covering more areas such as parking lot and other places not covered now and better lighting on parking lot and outside building.
     
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  6. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    This sounds very sensible.
     
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  7. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    Its not really semantics when one is presented in a seemingly absolute manner and the other is presented as something merely possible. Its like suggesting that the difference between MAY and SHALL are simply semantics.

    I am not offended by anything you have said and I no longer have any affiliation with LE, I simply offer some color and realism to things you seem to speculate are black and white. I dont offer my thoughts with the intent of changing your mind. I offer it for those reading the thread now and in the future.

    What I am doubting is that somoene who has never performed protective services has anything but a bumbling understanding of it until they have had the occasion first be trained and then to hone any training they have received or knowledge they have gained via actual application of it in real circumstances. It is often said that with training comes a rather obvious encumbrance until it is properly supported by knowledge and experience. I am not saying that someone need be in a gunfight, I am saying that a person needs to have had the responsibility and have operated within the arena of consequence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  8. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    I agree 100%

    there is a big difference between a successful golf tournament pro and a guy who stripes 330 yard drives at the range but cannot compete in a tournament. The difference is that the tour pro is a COMPLETE player (drive/irons, short game) AND performs under pressure because he has BEEN under pressure and prevailed.

    And this is one of the reasons our church security insists on LE and military experience (depending on the experience), with a preference for LE experience in civilian environments. We want guys with prior training, prior EXPERIENCE, and a trained eye. And in our case, the more experienced (retired LE) are the guys who really see everything. They see things the normal guy just doesn't see. Observation is key, and it buys a lot of time when you catch something early.
     
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  9. fredj338

    fredj338

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    And my point is this is true of LEO or retired military depending on just what they did in service. Anyone can be trained, it is done every day in LEA & the military. However not everyone can attain a high skill level with a firearm, that is also proven true every day across the country. So why I stand by original response on choosing team members &/or a team leader. The fact they were or are in LE or military MIGHT make them a good choice or you get the dude from Parkland. Just fact, not emotion.
     
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  10. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Don't forget protection of minors from predators (minor and adult). Both physical security and personnel procedures should be considered. And, remember, when evaluating background checks - what someone actually did, or arrested for, or charged with, and plead to/convicted of - may all be very different things.
     
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  11. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Yet at some point they may have to engage an armed attacker or multiple attackers. There must be a skill component there or they become part of the problem. Situational awareness & keen observation are essential skills, but no less so than being able to shoot accurately under stress & in a crowd. Not to mention the mindset involved in stepping into that roll.
     
  12. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Observation (and communication) is the vast majority of providing security. "Normal guys" can be trained and, with practice/experience, can be good. They can also the trained to handle minor situations (the vast majority of situations are minor - but still need to be addressed).

    Being LE, and especially general military experience, doesn't guarantee good observation and behavioral assessment skills.
     
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  13. jonb32248

    jonb32248

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    That's what I was saying about the nursery. We already ck backgrounds for workers in that area and Sunday school classes.We've disgust the problem with marital issues and spouses picking up their kids, a head scratcher. had a meeting a few weeks ago that I thought would be an hour but turned into four.
     
  14. G26-Has-my-6

    G26-Has-my-6

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    the difference is being a successful, experienced professional vs. a wanna be amateur. Not to say a wanna be amateur cannot be effective, the academy gets new batches of them every year. But only percent of these become successful experienced professionals.
     
  15. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    I have never seen the idea of security marginalized to such a degree. This is why I find these threads so entertaining
     
  16. PeterG

    PeterG

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    Our safety team has been active about 1-1/2 years and so far it’s been minor health issues from elderly members.


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  17. pwinter

    pwinter

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    I like how you think.

    Also, I'm not as young as I use to be, but I am always "in the game" along with the other 5-10% of members that are LTC holders. I'm no expert to give advice or train anyone in security, I'm just more observant than most and I take my personal security seriously.[/QUOTE]
     
  18. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    To the parent dropping off the child, we issue (restaurant type) numbered pagers have to be returned to pick up the child.
     
  19. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Relative is in USSS, several years of dignitary protection. Outside of planning and logistics, he has told me the majority of his time is in observation and communication - and one (behavioral observation/threat assessment) of the more difficult skills to acquire.
     
  20. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    Someone told you? Thank you for clearing that up, I thought you were speaking of your own opinion. I wouldn't expect you to defend someone elses thoughts and expressions but I stand by what I said. I have never seen it marginalized in such a way unless someone was simply being coy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019