Chronograph Data

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by DonD, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. DonD

    DonD

    Messages:
    11,919
    Likes Received:
    18,069
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Location:
    Central TX
    I'll readily admit that I'm an energy junkie. If the CCW ammo I'm using has a high quality slug, then I like all the kinetic energy a round can safely generate.

    So, got some data this morning using a new Caldwell chronograph. Loved it, so easy to set up and take down.

    Gun was a S&W M&P9 2.0 5" barrel (3 of the rounds had only a 3fps velocity spread!)
    Double Tap 124gr +P - 1270fps/444 ft lbs
    Hornady Critical Duty 135gr +P - 1130 ft lbs/383 ft lbs

    That compares to earlier data with 147gr Fed HST +P - 1063fps/369 ft lbs, out of the same gun.

    The DT ammo is loaded with Speer Gold Dots. Think I have a new carry round. Will try some redneck ballistics testing and see if I can find any reason not to carry it. Don
     
    rock185 and TeaDub like this.
  2. -JCN-

    -JCN-

    Messages:
    5,409
    Likes Received:
    19,454
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Underwood +P+ loading of Speer 124gr Gold Dot bullet. Basically a 357 Sig lite. 1282 FPS out of a 3.4” barrel G26.

    99D8788B-1AB4-4E4A-89E8-F8736A02C1EC.jpeg

    I personally like the 147gr +P HST as I try and stay subsonic for most of my self defense rounds. Thinking that I would like to save some of my hearing.

    Ordered a high quality sound meter to get a sense of how much of a difference there is with and without the sonic boom.
     
    TeaDub likes this.

  3. DonD

    DonD

    Messages:
    11,919
    Likes Received:
    18,069
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Location:
    Central TX
    That is hot but it's only 12fps faster for a +P+ loading that is not recognized by SAAMI and is not approved for use in the S&W or my primary CCW semi, a Ruger SR9C. Both manuals for those two guns specifically disapprove those +P+ round. Don
     
  4. -JCN-

    -JCN-

    Messages:
    5,409
    Likes Received:
    19,454
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    I’m just giving you a mild ribbing for your quest for hot 9mm ammo. :)

    The +P+ is 13 FPS faster WITH A BARREL 1.4” SHORTER. Likely would be 75-100fps faster going from a 3.4” to a 5” barrel.

    I personally wouldn’t carry self defense boolits from “Double Tap” due to the Mas Ayoob philosophy of “don’t give prosecutors an inch of rope to hang you on and to make you out to be a zealot.”

    EDIT: I looked it up and Double Tap bonded uses Gold Dots and controlled expansion uses XTPs.

    IMHO, if you’re going to carry a gun that large you might as well just carry 357 Sig and get what you’re looking for and more out of an established police used cartridge and bullet.

    Basically what your post says is “I like hot ammo, but not too hot.” It’s like trying to gimmick up a jalapeño to be spicier rather than just moving up to a spicier pepper.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
    DonD likes this.
  5. ronin.45

    ronin.45

    Messages:
    14,326
    Likes Received:
    4,866
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Location:
    NE OHIO
    If you really like energy, you're on the wrong end of the weight range.
     
    -JCN- likes this.
  6. Dr_fast

    Dr_fast

    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2017
    OK, dumb question.
    What velocity do you get the sonic boom?
    I thought the speed of sound was 700 Miles per hour. Is that what is just in feet per second?
     
  7. DonD

    DonD

    Messages:
    11,919
    Likes Received:
    18,069
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Location:
    Central TX
    I don't mind ribbing and the barrel length issue is not disputable.

    No, the 5" barrel, while in reality not a great deal larger than my favorite CCW gun, a Ruger SR9C, that difference is meaningful.

    I had intended to chrono the Ruger but I've been going nuts doing projects around the house and wasn't intending to shoot the Ruger much. So dummy here forgot to bring a mag for it and so with the Ruger having a mag disconnect, I was out of luck. Will check the Ruger later, it too has a 3.4" barrel. Don
     
  8. DonD

    DonD

    Messages:
    11,919
    Likes Received:
    18,069
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Location:
    Central TX
    Varies by altitude but for general purposes, call it 1100 fps. Don
     
    Dr_fast and -JCN- like this.
  9. phonejack

    phonejack

    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    473
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Location:
    arkansas
    Speed of sound is roughly 1110 fps.
     
  10. TeaDub

    TeaDub

    Messages:
    4,854
    Likes Received:
    8,711
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Location:
    OTP Atlanta
    I love chrono reports. Many, many years ago I had an Oehler. A customer at the range where I worked, let me borrow his Labradar any time he was there and I wanted to test carry loads. That thing was so easy and it gave mucho data. :hearts:

    For my carry ammo, I'm content with the "big guys" loadings. Pretty much Gold Dot and HST depending on caliber. Speer and Federal seem to have them sorted out pretty well.

    That doesn't contain the geek in me. Keep these reports coming and congrats on finding a new carry load. :thumbsup:
     
    -JCN- likes this.
  11. rock185

    rock185

    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    348
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Location:
    The Great Southwest, under the Tonto Rim
    I enjoy seeing chronograph results. Especially 9MM, since there is such a wide variety of ammo, pistols, revolvers and carbines chambered for the cartridge. Just to satisfy my curiosity about what this or that ammo does in real world guns, not a test barrel, not what what a chart, catalog, reloading manual,etc, may indicate. I've found ammunition, both factory and reloads, sometimes varies considerably from published ballistics. From what I've read, it seems the vast majority of handgun owner/shooters could care less about actual velocity, energy, consistently,etc., or take as gospel published information. I still enjoy learning of real world results......ymmv
     
    Berto likes this.
  12. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

    Messages:
    18,800
    Likes Received:
    29,818
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Location:
    Idaho
    Thanks for the report.

    My 9mm carry are Federal 124gr HST +P.

    For 380 in my G42, I prefer Underwood 90gr XTP +P (which like +P+ has no SAAMI spec). For my Kaht P380, my own load of Lehigh 90gr XP going about 950fps at the muzzle.
     
    Berto likes this.
  13. Mr Meeseeks

    Mr Meeseeks

    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    9,564
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Does your brass bulge? Have you done a pull down to determine powder used? I’m sitting on 700 gold dot 124gr bullets and want to cook up some coyote rounds that’ll reach out and whack em are 75 yards.

    I’m thinking something right between +P and major, carried in a G17 with a KKM barrel.
     
    -JCN- likes this.
  14. Tony Rumore

    Tony Rumore

    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    608
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Location:
    OK, USA
    It's possible to get the 124gr Gold Dot smoking right along out of a 9mm +P+ loading.
    Using Ramshot Silhouette powder, I recorded the following results.

    6" Witness 1425fps
    4.75" Beretta 92 1358fps
    4" Smith 5906 1340fps
    3.6" Witness 1327fps

    I won't post the powder charge, since it's clearly way over the SAAMI spec.....start low and work up.

    Tony

    P.S. CCI 500, Starline Cases, 1.122 OAL.
     
    rock185, Berto, WeeWilly and 2 others like this.
  15. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

    Messages:
    22,636
    Likes Received:
    11,431
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    PA
    Fixed it for you. ;)
     
  16. bac1023

    bac1023

    Messages:
    125,034
    Likes Received:
    26,875
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Location:
    PA
    Very cool

    Thanks for the info, Don.
     
    DonD likes this.
  17. ronin.45

    ronin.45

    Messages:
    14,326
    Likes Received:
    4,866
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Location:
    NE OHIO
    You're right, if he goes to a bigger caliber, 124-147gr bullets will make tremendous energy.
     
  18. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

    Messages:
    22,636
    Likes Received:
    11,431
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    PA
    Heck yeah. I've seen some 135 grain 10mm reloads give some impressive numbers.

    Oh dang, I just admitted to witnessing a WMD. :couch:
    :rofl:
     
  19. Khufu

    Khufu Pharaoh

    Messages:
    34,206
    Likes Received:
    13,200
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    Street Corner
    So Ranger SXT +p+ would pass the Ayoob test....
     
  20. Khufu

    Khufu Pharaoh

    Messages:
    34,206
    Likes Received:
    13,200
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    Street Corner
    How are [especially consumer level] chronographs calibrated?

    The short distances of optically triggered (or even inductive coil triggered) units means slight variability in manufacturing give a lot of error. A quick back of the napkin calculation has that if your measuring points are 12 inches apart and you have 0.1" of variability in sensor placement (or where they measure), that is almost 1% error. And then with optical systems there is the cosine error.

    How I interpret chrono data is that it is "relative" data that is close. Is my 9mm going 1190, 1200, or 1210 in reality if it shows 1200. I dont know. But as long as I use the same device setup similarly, my results should be comparable to other results from my unit. But I dont take them as absolute numbers.