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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I picked up a new sizer for my cast bullets to try a smaller size bullet in my 17 earlier this week. I decided to switch out M-dies from the 38/357 die to the 9mm die because the new sizer is .356 (old size is .358).

I loaded up 5 rounds to finish off the last of the WSP primers I had and was reloading the primer feed with some Rem 1-1/2 primers when I noticed a silver piece of metal sitting on the shellplate. My first thought was that it was a chunk of shaved lead because the M-die wasn't flaring enough and needed a little adjustment. When I picked it up, I knew it wasn't lead because it was hard.

My next guess was that it had to have come from the press, but where from? I started examining the press and pulling dies when another piece fell onto the shellplate. Further inquiry produced more slivers of metal, and the knowledge that the lugs in the bushing adapters of my LNL AP are failing!

The press is only 1 year old, and I've only loaded 400-500 rounds of 9mm. I've emailed Hornady, and hopefully they'll get back to me on Monday.

Total Damage is:
Station 1 - 5 of 6 lugs broke
Station 2 - 4 of 6 lugs broke
Station 3 - 2 of 6 lugs broke
Station 4 - 0 of 6 lugs broke (2 cracked)
Station 5 - 1 of 6 lugs broke (1 cracked)

And because a picture is worth a thousand words:
Metal Slivers


Damaged Lugs in Station 1&2





Cracked Lug in Station 5


Full size images are here: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/buyobuyo/LNL Bushing Damage/
 

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Conifer Jack
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Man, I don't even see how that can happen unless there was a catastrophic failure in the metal itself. I've never even heard of that happening.

By chance do you have your die bases set so they're screwed down tight against the shell plate? I don't see any other way to put that much force on the lugs.


Jack
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The dies just barely touch the shell plate.

The bushing adapter in my LNL Classic has seen more pressure cycles/die changes/greater pressure than the LNL AP has seen, and it doing fine.

Perhaps my machine is one that slipped by QC and now that I'm really starting to use it the problems are showing up.
 

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Conifer Jack
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Please post Hornady's reply when you hear from them, I'm sure the two of us are not the only one's interested in knowing what caused it.

It sure is a head shaker.

(BTW... I didn't really think you had your dies imprinting into the shell plate... just kinda grasping at straws trying to figure out what happened. Obviously Hornady will fix it without question but more importantly they're going to want to diagnose the cause.)


Jack
 

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DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.
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That is the furthest thing I thought would break. My money was on the easy eject tab.
 

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Handloader
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I am also interested in the outcome.

I ran a test for you... and this is the best I could bring myself to do.

Subjected a 308 Lee neck sizing die to a ton of pressure using hornady LNL bushings.

Why.... Because... I like to test things.:whistling:

The outcome:
The hornady quick change bushing split right at the threads.

Suspected Reason:
The Lee die threads were only engaged with the top 3/4ths of the Bushing threads. When I applied a metric ton (butt load) of force the bushing split right at the last engaged die thread.

But the lugs are still completely intact on the male and female bushing with zero damage.

Proof of my test.:supergrin:

Now I see the light!


My Conclusion:
1. Screw in your dies so that the threads are completely engaged with the LNL bushings if you are going to try to purposely destroy a die.
2. I really hate my lee rifle dies.. allowing me to subject them to such a test.
3. Don't try this at home... I am da only one prefeshunal enough...
4. I am not willing to try this again to see if I can get the lugs to break after screwing the die further in the bushing. (I'm a wuss... explanation below)
5. Hearing a crack and a loud pop when forcing a die is a heart stopping experience.
6. I just might be an idiot.

:supergrin::supergrin:

I am thinking you have found some bad female bushings, that slipped thru QC. Or you are a close relative of Arnold King of Cali.

Edit:Used a spell checker! jeesh...
 

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Handloader
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Well I'll be... The OP is not crazy after all!

I decided to look over all my presses and I did happen to find one that does have a slightly broke off tab. It is one of my newest LNL's and most used, set up for small pistol. It doesn't appear to be causing any issues as I crank 1000's of rounds out if it every weekend.

Looks like I might have to make a LNL bushing removal tool and start selling it if this becomes an epidemic.:supergrin:

Time to fire up the lathe and mill!

Picture of my damaged bushing, This did not happen on the press I performed the test on.


It was difficult to get a photo of said tab. I will also call hornady to find out what it takes to replace these guys. I think they are just wrenched in. We will see.

Everybody look over your presses. You might have the cancer and not know yet. :supergrin:

Edit: found that it was my newest press and not my oldest, serial 19xxx which is inline with the OP's serial number. My oldest press 13xxx has no issues.
 

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Handloader
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I found this thread outside of GT. It explains that hornady had a run of bushings that were improperly heat treated and they will send you a new set if you call them.

http://www.okshooters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96480

User replaceable part.

Darn, I thought we had finnaly found a flaw in the perfect press that will give dilion an avantage. :rofl:

I will give hornady a call monday. Apparently they don't do weekends or work late on fridays! Dang American companies!:wavey::supergrin:

Hornady Manufacturing Company
3625 West Old Potash Hwy
Grand Island, NE 68803
USA
Phone: 1-800-338-3220
Phone: 308-382-1390
Fax: 308-382-5761

Business Hours
Monday-Thursday 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Friday 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.
Central Time
 

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Conifer Jack
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Well I'll be... The OP is not crazy after all!

I decided to look over all my presses and I did happen to find one that does have a slightly broke off tab. It is one of my newest LNL's and most used, set up for small pistol. It doesn't appear to be causing any issues as I crank 1000's of rounds out if it every weekend.

Looks like I might have to make a LNL bushing removal tool and start selling it if this becomes an epidemic.:supergrin:

Time to fire up the lathe and mill!

Picture of my damaged bushing, This did not happen on the press I performed the test on.


It was difficult to get a photo of said tab. I will also call hornady to find out what it takes to replace these guys. I think they are just wrenched in. We will see.

Everybody look over your presses. You might have the cancer and not know yet. :supergrin:

Edit: found that it was my newest press and not my oldest, serial 19xxx which is inline with the OP's serial number. My oldest press 13xxx has no issues.

Damn you Myke, now I've got to do some work and start tearing things apart. You're more trouble than a wife. :miff:


Jack
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the replies.

Jack, I didn't figure you were suggesting I was too dumb to install a die, :rofl: but I have don't plenty of questionable things in the past.

Mike, thanks for posting that link. I didn't think of doing a Google search. Sorry too see one of your presses doing it too, but it's good to know I'm not the only one. I don't what to think about how much force it took to split that bushing you posted.

Now to see if I can machine a couple of flats in a bushing on Monday during class or buy a set of vice grips.
 

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I checked mine last night, it has at least 15k rounds on it. I thought I found one cracked but after a closer insp, it was just a scratch.
 

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Malcontent
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pretty sad sight... even the lee pop in bushings dont do that!
I resist the strong urge to point out that for 1/5 of the price, you can get the same, or better performance with Lee products at times like these, but since you brought it up...:wavey:
 

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Handloader
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Damn you Myke, now I've got to do some work and start tearing things apart. You're more trouble than a wife. :miff:


Jack
Well at least I didn't measure the damage with calipers... :whistling:

How would one get them in the hole?:supergrin:
 

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The ****ty cast metal toggle linkage would give out before you could apply near enough pressure.


HAHAHAHAHAHA yea I broke two of those on my first press. Swithched to the classic cast though and never had another problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
HAHAHAHAHAHA yea I broke two of those on my first press. Swithched to the classic cast though and never had another problem.
Yep. Broke the first one and crushed the slot the shell holder goes into sizing military 308 cases. Sent it in for repair and the new link broke the same day I got it back swaging primer pockets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I got two emails from Hornady today. The first was an order confirmation for 5 new press bushings free of charge. The second was to let me know that the press bushings were coming and to give Tech Support a call to discuss the problem. I didn't have time to call today, but I'll call first thing tomorrow morning.

The press bushings just screw in. I already have mine out (used a big pair of channel locks). Just drop a die bushing in, grab it with a pair of pliers, and turn. They're not in there super tight, but more than just snugged down.
 
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