[Justin1911]

Anyone else notice in the last rules that "master" no longer includes those who are IDPA masters. Had someone at a match tell me this and I verified it today at gssfonline.com. I think it's a good thing. I've shot IDPA and USPSA for a few years prior to getting into GSSF and can honestly say there's a big difference in skill level in the average IDPA and USPSA "master" level shooters. I'm still looking for that master card from USPSA (and probably will be looking for a while due to my lack of practice), but got it from IDPA within a few months of starting to shoot that game.

 

[jdwatson]

I've been curious about the same thing. I don't shoot IDPA, yet. Is it a scoring thing ? Differences in way one achieves master rating ?

 

[Noponer]

I do not shoot IDPA (yet), but it seems that there should not be a "Master" class if it does not mean much.

Since IDPA believes their top shooters deserve a "Master" rating, why would IDPA Masters not be excluded from GSSF amateur status?

 

[Justin1911]

Not wanting to bash IDPA here, I do like to shoot it, but the master is earned after a < certain score on a 90 round classifier course. It tests a lot of skills (shooting on the move, strong/weak hand, using cover, reloads, etc), but if one wanted you could train/practice just those skills for the classifier and get really good at the classifier to make master. It's easy to set up and practice on your own (3 targets, barrell, and baricade is all that's really needed). It does take some skill though, not any slouch can just pick up a gun and make master with a few months of practice. All the IDPA masters I know are very compentent shooters.

Really, I'm just saying that I think GSSF made the right decision to let them shoot in amateur divisions. "Most" IDPA masters are not so good as to be able to shoot GSSF in amateur division a win a gun easily. They will have to work at it like everyone else.

 

[ron59]

Not wanting to bash IDPA here, I do like to shoot it, but the master is earned after a < certain score on a 90 round classifier course. It tests a lot of skills (shooting on the move, strong/weak hand, using cover, reloads, etc), but if one wanted you could train/practice just those skills for the classifier and get really good at the classifier to make master. It's easy to set up and practice on your own (3 targets, barrell, and baricade is all that's really needed). It does take some skill though, not any slouch can just pick up a gun and make master with a few months of practice. All the IDPA masters I know are very compentent shooters.

Correct. There are multiple "on paper" Masters in IDPA. Once you get competent, if you just repeatedly practiced the Classifer you could possibly shoot the time. (The Classifier is ALWAYS setup the same way)

The best way to do IDPA, is to shoot the Classifier once (early on), then never shoot it again. In the sanctioned IDPA matches (like state matches), if you do well enough in your current classification you will get "bumped up" to the next highest class. It is a completely different thing to become Master in this way, as you have to beat all of the other Experts in courses of fire you've never seen before.

Some people just want to be able to say "I'm a Master shooter"....

 

[ede]

can't you also make master in IDPA by winning a match?

 

[jdwatson]

I see now, perhaps if IDPA used the classifier course for initial placement only then the title "Master" would be on par with that status in other disciplines.

 

[ron59]

can't you also make master in IDPA by winning a match?

That's kind've what I said, I thought, when I said "if you do well enough in your current classification you will get "bumped up" to the next highest class".

Now, I've only been involved in IDPA for less than a year, so the actual process of how this works I'm not 100% positive, but this is what I heard from a family who's been shooting IDPA for several years, and got bumped via a win...

This kid (he's a teenager) I shoot with was classified a Marksman, and he won his Division in the South Carolina state match. He got bumped to Sharpshooter. As I said, this family has been IDPA'ing for at least two years. Anyway, they were telling me that you don't even have to win your division to get bumped... if your score is in a certain range, you could get bumped into that division regardless of what you are currently classified. Meaning, if the SECOND place Marksman had shot a score that was competitive within the Sharpshooter class, he could get bumped too.

I believe I even read on the 'net somewhere, that even if you were previously classified a Novice, if you shot in a sanctioned match and came out with a time that rivaled the Masters (even if you DIDN'T win the match), you would probably get bumped to Master. (And probably receive a severe scolding for sandbagging. )

The sanctioned matches are usually 8 or so stages. I guess the philosophy is that if you can shoot with the speed and hit ratio (meaning not lots of misses) with people in classes higher than you, you should be in that class.

So yes, ede... sounds like winning a match or even doing VERY WELL in a match will get you bumped to Master. I don't have personal experience yet with sandbagging in the sport, I've only shoot in my local matches so far. There, it seems like everyone shoots right in their classification (no Marksmans are shooting Expert times). I'll be shooting in my first big match next month (North Carolina State Match), so I'll get my first taste of what possible sandbagging is going on.

 

[ron59]

I see now, perhaps if IDPA used the classifier course for initial placement only then the title "Master" would be on par with that status in other disciplines.

I agree JD. That's what I alluded to as being the "best way" (and that's just my opinion) of moving up. Shoot the classifier once, then get bumped up through competitions.

 

[jdwatson]

I agree JD. That's what I alluded to as being the "best way" (and that's just my opinion) of moving up. Shoot the classifier once, then get bumped up through competitions.

I agree with our agreement ! :supergrin: I would also think your way would give you a better assessment of your practical skills. I'm a little surprised one can shoot the classifier as many times as one wants.

I'm a new shooter, I plan to use your method of progressing through the ranks.

 

[ron59]

I'm a little surprised one can shoot the classifier as many times as one wants.

I'm a new shooter, I plan to use your method of progressing through the ranks.

I can think of a couple of reasons why they might allow you to shoot the classifier again.

Say you shoot it the first time and get classified Sharpshooter. Then you improve alot and start getting competitive with the Experts at your local shoot. Well... I don't think you will get "bumped" at the local shoots. If for some reason you don't do well at a sanctioned event (or are unable to attend for some reason?), you might could reshoot the Classifier in order to get classified as the Expert you probably are now.

I think Justin1911's point was that it is possible to get an artificially high rating if all you do is practice the Classifier itself. While it does test several skills, if you repeatedly practice a SET course of fire, I think you could do better in the Classifier than you would be able to in courses of fire you'd never seen before, as you will encounter in local or sanctioned matches.

 

[Norske]

Several of the GSSF people shoot both IPSC/USPSA and IDPA.

It was their observation that an IDPA "Master" equated to about an IPSC/USPSA "A" or possibly "High B" shooter.

That is, they thought the "bar" set for IDPA "Master" status was lower than they liked for GSSF's purposes.

That there was no reason to "penalize" IDPA "Masters" by forcing them to swim in the deep end at GSSF matches any earlier than necessary -- depriving them of their chance to win their three "Amateur" guns in GSSF before they go into the deep end for THAT reason.

Not a dig against IDPA; just an attempt to be fairer to the many GSSF members who also want to compete in IDPA.

 

[Justin1911]

Well said :supergrin: