CCI Blazer 10mm Auto bullet sinking!!

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by g20addicted, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. g20addicted

    g20addicted

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    Hello everybody;
    I have a question and doubt for you guys.
    I have a G20 10mm Auto and use in it CCI Blazer rounds, they are the 200grs with aluminum brass.

    I do reload but I always kept the CCI Blazers in the magazine as "if ever I need to really use this" rounds.

    Today I realized that the first round in the magazine (which is the one I take in and out most frequently when i leave the pistol in the safe for long period of time with so the spring is not too compressed) had the bullet way sunk into the brass, with a COL that was at least 1mm shorter than the others.
    I was a bit shocked by this.
    I took out the mag the second round, I placed it into the Lee shell holder, then took the whole assembly in my hand with thumb and index finger and started pressing on the bullet; without even too much force I managed to squeeze the bullet a bit inside the brass, shortening the COL by hand!

    I am going to pull out these two bullets and i will not shoot them.

    My questions are:
    1) Has this happened to others?? That after many putting in the same round in the magazine (pushing it in from the bullet) the bullet does get sit deeper inside?
    2) Is it normal that the aluminum cases of these Blazers is so weak as crimping goes?
    3) Is it safe to pull out the bullet, then re-seat it and re-crimp it in my press using the same powder as there is now?

    Thanks!!
    Andy
     
  2. refugeepj

    refugeepj

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    it is referred to as setback. happens when one specific round is repeatedly chambered. will cause excess pressure if fired.
    I have been known to use a bullet puller to slightly lengthen a round without pulling the bullet. then shoot it and buy new. caution is a good thing!
    good you noticed and understood the danger. especially with the 10mm, it is a high pressure cartridge.
     

  3. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

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    CCI Blazer aluminum cased stuff is training ammo, not carry ammo. Keeping a mag or two loaded with this ammo makes no sense to me. Use brass cased ammo for this.

    Also, don't rechamber the same round again and again. Bullet setback happens with brass cased ammo too so you're better off using a new round each and every time you clear your pistol and then want to chamber a round to make it "hot" again.
     
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  4. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Alum cases are crap for good neck tension. Anything you do, like trying to reload it or repeated chambering, will reduce the neck tension. It's best to NOT repeatedly rechamber alum cased rds. NEVER use a bullet puller to reset the bullet. Once the case neck tension has been reduced, the bullet puller will only make that worse. The round is pretty much toast once it has moved more than 1/16" (1.5mm), it should not be shot. Especially true high pressure rds, but the reduced neck tension means less pressure too, so maybe a wash pressure wise. Alum Blazer ammo is practice ammo, should never be used for serious purposes, the alum case is quite suspect.
     
  5. OkieGunNut

    OkieGunNut

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    Don't mind Fred, he gets like this every now and then. If you just had to turn that round into a "good" round you could pull the bullet, save the powder, size the case minus the decapping rod, flare the case, put the powder back in, reseat, and crimp. Good to go. And yes, there are some of us who have actually loaded and fired thousands of reloaded Blazer aluminum cases. If you do this you will get a loss rate, due to case mouth splits, of around 10% per reloading cycle increasing 10% more per cycle. So 10% on the first reload, 20% on the second, 30% on the third, 40% on the fourth. I don't think I have done much after four because the loss rate makes it a pain in the rear. This is with target/practice power level loads.
     
  6. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

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    It's been a long time since I've read a post with such flawed and dangerous advice.

    There is a reason why CCI places the letters N and R on the headstamp of their aluminum cased ammo it means NOT RELOADABLE.

    CCI made a big mistake by changing their cases from berdan primed to boxer primed.

    You just can't fix stupid.
     
  7. OkieGunNut

    OkieGunNut

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    I don't generally give "advice", I give facts. And you are wrong, you can fix stupid and you can also fix ignorant, so there is hope for you after all. How long do you want to play this game?
     
  8. toofman

    toofman

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    What's the price difference between CCI brass and the aluminum cased? I enjoy having opposable thumbs too much to reload aluminum cases.
     
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  9. OkieGunNut

    OkieGunNut

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    The fact that you have recognized your limitations is a good thing.
     
  10. tom mac

    tom mac

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    As per the setback problem...I have special loads i use just for carry. To avoid any possible set back problems, every time I unload the pistol the ejected round gets a sharpe line on it. After the round gets 4-5 marks it goes into a separate bin and is replaced with new. The older rounds are fired off to make sure my carry rounds are fully functional in the gun.
     
  11. fredj338

    fredj338

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    It's not what was sugested, using a bullet puller to reset the bullet is bad practice. I have reloaded alum cased 45acp as a test. One single reload, the case was toast. I checked this by running my test batch of 10 alum cases, fired only once, against the same load in brass cases of unknown number of firings. The vel spread on the brass cases, even beinbg mixed, was less than 25fps high to low. The alum, vel spread was all over, as much as 100fps diff. That tells me neck tensions wass all over the place. Sure they all went bang, but accuracy suffers as well as reliability. My normal sub 2" @ 25yd load went to 5-6" with alum cases. Anyone telling you diff hasn't done enough testing.:ack:
    BTW a 10% first reload failure rate proves my point. You already f-d the case mouth firing it & then sizing it & then flaring it. Can it be done, sure, should it be done, no. If I needed shtf ammo & all I had was alum cases, yep, load em up. As a routine, foolish comes to mind but hey, I get like that, factual & honest.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
  12. OkieGunNut

    OkieGunNut

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    Once again Fred we agree. My second sentence started with: "If you just had to turn that round into a "good" round you could......" Your second to the last sentence read: "If I needed shtf ammo & all I had was alum cases, yep, load em up." Seems to me we are in agreement. LIke I told Merkavaboy, "I don't generally give "advice", I give facts." I leave the actions people "should" take to them as they know themselves better than I do and, more importantly, they are the ones responsible for the results of their actions. Thanks for your input. I might not always agree; but, I always appreciate it.
     
  13. fredj338

    fredj338

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    There are lots of things I would do in a SHTF scenario I wouldn't try to do in normal times. Using unknown powder, or WTF, would be an example. I can develop a load for any caliber using any powder source. It would take development, chrono, knowledge of pressure signs, but one could come up w/ something that would go bang & no boom. Point, why? Alum cases were NEVER designed to be reloaded, why they were berdan primed. Yet berdan priming is expensive, so we have alum cases that can be reloaded but really shouldn't. The chance of a setback during feeding & the subsequent higher pressure likely, or at the least crap accuracy, should be reason enough to not do it.
    Neck tension is compromised once the bullet starts moving in the case. So pulling it, resizing the case & reloading it will work to an extent, but with alum, the case ductility is f-d, so not a good idea. Going back to the OP, toss the round. If you reload & want to salvage the primer & bullet, have at it.
     
  14. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

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    I don't "play games" with people who even remotely think that it's wise to reload alum cases. People who do so are on a fast track to be Darwin Award candidates.
     
  15. OkieGunNut

    OkieGunNut

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    I see you do play games, I'm looking forward to it. My track record in reloading is 47 years long, how about you? My time doing experimental reloading work is only 35 years long, so there is that.
     
  16. fredj338

    fredj338

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    I have no issue experimenting, a man has to know his limitations, but I rarely recommend my experiments to the newb reloaders. I have loaded steel cases, alum cases, neither give good results vs brass. Since brass cases are readily available, free at many public ranges, I don't see the point but for the knowledge I can in a apocalyptic shtf scenario. To restate, the OP should toss the offending round or pull it apart for the components. Then get in the habit of taking the top round out of cycle each time he chambers.
     
  17. elstupido

    elstupido

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    This ^.......Most training ammo is loaded with medium powders and loaded lite for cost savings so it MIGHT be o.k. to shoot depending on how bad the set back is. Defensive ammo is the opposite.......dummy out
     
  18. ironhead7544

    ironhead7544

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    If you chamber a round from the magazine, it may get loose. Dont do it more than once. It is designed to make one trip up the ramp. There is one company that will void your warranty if you chamber a round twice.

    It is possible you got some bad ammo. Take a round that has not been chambered and try to push the bullet in against your bench with your fingers. If it moves, then call the maker.

    I have never had problems with Blazer ammo in pistols. Because I reload, I generally get brass ammo. I have been issued this ammo for training and practice. I did shoot quite a bit of 44 Special Blazer with the 200 gr Gold Dot bullet. I was using various 44 Special revolvers for CCW at that time. The Blazer was the only load I could get then with the Gold Dot. When they came out with the brass case loading, I switched to that for carry. I only use factory for carry.

    With the AR-15 carbine in 9mm, the Blazer ammo did not work for me. It seems the aluminum does not expand correctly for that blowback system. Dont know about other carbines, but I would test it first before buying a large amount of Blazer.
     
  19. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Never heard of this, what manuf???? Just how would the manuf know how many times a round was chambered?????
     
  20. OkieGunNut

    OkieGunNut

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    Be gentle with him Fred.