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Carrying in Public School (K-12)

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by light-switch, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. light-switch

    light-switch

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    Sorry if this was already answered: I did a search and came up with nothing related.

    I'm a high school teacher, and have a PA concealed carry permit (LTCF). I was reading the US Code Title 18,922 where it says

    "(q)
    (2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"

    It sounds like I can legally carry concealed into the school building? I always thought public schools were gun-free zones since the Columbine shooting?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Critias

    Critias Freelancer CLM

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    I'd check for city or county laws that may supercede that.

    I'd also check an employee handbook, just to be aware of what may or may not happen to you, professionally, if your firearm comes to light.
     

  3. OD Green Glock 19

    OD Green Glock 19

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    check the state law

    here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/

    Places Off Off-Limits Even With A Permit/License


    Court Houses


    Elementary and Secondary Education Schools

    Title 18 Section 913


    Possession of firearm or other dangerous weapon in court facility.

    (a) Offense defined.--A person commits an offense if he:
    1.


    knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility or knowingly causes a

    firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility; or
    2.


    knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility with the intent that the

    firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime or knowingly causes a firearm or
    other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility with the intent that the firearm or other dangerous
    weapon be used in the commission of a crime.
    Title 18 § 912


    Possession of weapon on school property.

    (a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing
    instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife,
    cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or
    implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
    (b)


    Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the

    buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or
    secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by
    the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
    (c)


    Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful

    supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  4. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA

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    (c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.

    "For other lawful purpose" would seem to cover a person carrying with a LTCF. If carrying with a LTCF is not a lawful purpose, what is it....unlawful? It can't be both.

    I think there is a case coming up where this "defense" may be finally decided by a court.
     
  5. trifecta

    trifecta

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    You still need to check state law, because it may prohibit carrying. I would guess they gave you the laws/rules with the permit?

    There is at least one district in Texas with armed staff.
     
  6. LoadToadBoss

    LoadToadBoss IYAAYWOT

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    Check your state's LTCF laws. In LA, our concealed handgun permit regulations specify that the CHP does not give permission to carry a firearm into certain prohibited places.

    Since you are a teacher, check with your school board's criteria. If your employer says "no", then nothing else matter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  7. MountainPacker

    MountainPacker

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    It is against PA law to posess a weapon in a K-12 school. Also, because you aren't authorized by the state to carry there, you will also be in violation of the federal Gun Free School Zone act.

    DON'T DO IT!

    The US Code you sited is irrelevant to violations of PA law. Also, since PA doesn't permit you to carry in the school zone, neither does 18 USC Sec. 922 subsection (q). You will be in violation of both state and federal law.



    Title 18 § 912 Possession of weapon on school property.
    (a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing
    instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife,
    cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or
    implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
    (b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the
    buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or
    secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by
    the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
    (c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful
    supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.


    If you want to carry in K-12, move to Utah. They do permit it by state law, therefore you would be expempted from 18 USC Sec. 922 subsection (q) in Utah with a Utah (not a reciprocal state) permit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  8. LittleRedToyota

    LittleRedToyota

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    that is not a concern in PA as we have full state preemption.

    that most likely is a concern.

    in general, as steve pointed out, there is a defense if the gun is carried for lawful purposes. however, whether the courts will use the real definition of "lawful purpose" or redefine it to mean only "official purpose" remains to be seen.

    but, even if the courts do exercise intellectual honest with regard to the definition of the word "lawful", it won't help with regard to professional repercussions.
     
  9. cop414

    cop414

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    I agree with Steve, but that being said I wouldn't want to be the test case.

    Sgt Tim
     
  10. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA

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    As I said.........."for other lawful purpose" has been argued to mean having a license to carry firearms. I personally know police officers who were called to a school because a person was said to have a firearm in their vehicle on school grounds. The officer said the person may be in violation of some school policy, but they are not breaking the law because of the "for other lawful purpose".

    Of course there is the flip side, which is the case I mentioned where "for other lawful purpose" may finally be settled in a court of law.
     
  11. MountainPacker

    MountainPacker

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    Lot's of luck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  12. MacG22

    MacG22 CLM

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    There was a big debate years ago about this. Essentially, it's up to the states. And I don't know of a single state that allows carry on a k-12 school. There could be one, but I haven't encountered it in my travels.
     
  13. LittleRedToyota

    LittleRedToyota

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    utah, alabama, and oregon off the top of my head.

    PA does, too, by the letter of the statute. we will have to wait to see whether or not the courts actually follow the letter of the statute, though.
     
  14. light-switch

    light-switch

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    Thanks for all the answers!
     
  15. BamaBud

    BamaBud NRA Life Member

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    From the Code of Alabama (1975):

    Section 13A-11-72
    Certain persons forbidden to possess pistol.
    (a) No person who has been convicted in this state or elsewhere of committing or attempting to commit a crime of violence shall own a pistol or have one in his or her possession or under his or her control.

    (b) No person who is a drug addict or an habitual drunkard shall own a pistol or have one in his or her possession or under his or her control.

    (c) Subject to the exceptions provided by Section 13A-11-74, no person shall knowingly with intent to do bodily harm carry or possess a deadly weapon on the premises of a public school.

    (d) Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to do bodily harm on the premises of a public school in violation of subsection (c) of this section is a Class C felony.

    (e) Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) of this section.

    (f) The term "public school" as used in this section applies only to a school composed of grades K-12 and shall include a school bus used for grades K-12.

    http://www.legislature.state.al.us/CodeofAlabama/1975/coatoc.htm