close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Carrying in a bar that can't legally dispense alcohol?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by HollowHead, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    25,147
    Likes Received:
    3,350
    Location:
    Where the buffalo roam
    For reasons that would clog bandwidth, a motorcycle organization I'm a member of has lost yet another place to hold it's monthly Sunday morning meetings and has been invited to meet at a local bar on a Sunday morning at 10am, two hours before alcohol can be legally served / sold by local ordinance. One question that came up is, is that two hour window kosher for CCW even though it's a bar where carry is forbidden because alcohol is served? HH
     
  2. FCastle88

    FCastle88

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,937
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    PA
    It probably depends on your state's laws, does the bar also serve food before they are allowed to serve alcohol, or are they letting you use the bar before it actually opens? Either way, there's a pretty good argument that no alcohol is being served, and it's just being used as a restaurant or meeting place, not as a bar. Fortunately in PA I can carry pretty anywhere except federal buildings, airports, courthouses, and K-12 schools, so glad I don't have to worry about all these technicalities people are always asking about.
     

  3. TK-421

    TK-421

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Messages:
    10,526
    Likes Received:
    1,057
    Location:
    Pflugerville, TX
    That's a good question. From my understanding of the law, at least here in Texas, it doesn't matter whether or not they're actually serving alcohol, it's the fact that they derive 51% of their sales from alcohol, which means no carry inside that establishment period. However, I honestly haven't researched it much, and that is my best guess, but I could be completely wrong.

    My advice is to call up your local police station and ask them, because they'll be the ones who you have to deal with if you get in trouble for it. So they'll probably be the ones who know whether or not you'd get in trouble for it.
     
  4. Slug71

    Slug71

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,499
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Oregon - U.S.A
    In Oregon you can carry in a bar.
     
  5. automatic slim

    automatic slim Walmart Shopper

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    1,101
    Location:
    Disputed Territory
    What kinda bass player is up at 10am on a Sunday?

    :supergrin:
     
  6. Resqu2

    Resqu2

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    6,956
    Likes Received:
    1,565
    Location:
    SouthWest VA
    I'm sure it depends on the state but I can't Carry in a school on Election Day even though no kids are in school and the building isn't being used as a school that day. I'd check with te locals on this one just to be safe.
     
  7. Bruce M

    Bruce M

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    49,344
    Likes Received:
    26,490
    Location:
    S FL
    :rofl::rofl:
     
  8. el_jewapo

    el_jewapo

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    8,738
    Likes Received:
    8,591
    WWGD? (What would Gipsy do?)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  9. tehan2

    tehan2 NRA & GOAL

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,125
    Likes Received:
    697
    Location:
    Breaking the law in CT
    he'd "relieve himself" on his underage step-daughter....
     
  10. .264 magnum

    .264 magnum CLM

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    13,341
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    Location:
    Dallas TX
    In Texas if an bar/restaurant has a TABC license of any kind, local taxing percentages have noting to do with it, CC is a no go.
     
  11. failsafe

    failsafe

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    3,045
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Missouri
    Are all bars allowed to be open on Sunday or only the ones that serve food also ? i can't speak to TX, but here in MO. a Bar/Restaurant can be open on Sunday only if it has a 51% total food sales..Bars only are not allowed to open on Sunday..
     
  12. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2001
    Messages:
    26,772
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Location:
    Indiana
    So does Texas even have a 51% law? (I was thinking they did)... but from the sounds of what you're saying, if they serve alcohol, it's no joy.

    The OP's question is very difficult to answer, because he has not stated what state he is in.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  13. .264 magnum

    .264 magnum CLM

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    13,341
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    Location:
    Dallas TX

    The OP is in Montana.

    All of the Texas percentage rules are city or county enforced attempts at morals policing money grabbing. The rub is hard liquor is taxed at higher rates than beer and wine by the TABC - IIRC the difference is 6%. Added to that local entities want to control the number of bars. Some won't allow a restaurant to sell over a certain percentage of booze v. total receipts. Some enforce financial penalties for missing local percentages.

    Irving just had an vote over upping it percentage.

    There is a lot of cheating and places that sell higher end beers and wines have a more difficult time as you can imagine.



    ETA - as you might guess the percentages are all over the place. Irving was at 40%, many others are at 50 and 60%. It's really stupid.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  14. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    25,147
    Likes Received:
    3,350
    Location:
    Where the buffalo roam
    I spoke with the county attorney last night during on of our breaks (he's in the pool league) and it's a no-go in MT to CCW in any non-food bar regardless of the hour. We also have a 51%-plus food revenue law and for what it's worth, you can't carry in the "dispensing room" (bar area) of a restaurant, either. HH
     
  15. Dan_ntx

    Dan_ntx

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Dallas Area Texas
    GC 411.204 says "and" derives 51% of it's revenue from alcohol sales. Then CC is a no go.

    Unless posted otherwise (30.06 sign) you can lawfully enjoy a meal in a restaurant that serves alcohol while CC in Texas.

    If I were able to cut and paste from the state website I would, but alas I am not.
     
  16. jpa

    jpa CLM

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Messages:
    8,030
    Likes Received:
    120
    Location:
    Las Vegas NV
    Yes, do that. Tell them that your "motorcycle organization" was forced to find a new place to meet on short notice because they're no longer welcome at their previous meeting place and this bar in their jurisdiction will do just fine. Then ask if you can carry your gun to this meeting. I guarantee if the meeting didn't get unwanted law enforcement attention before, it will now.
     
  17. SMOKEin

    SMOKEin

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Texas
    Correct. Serving alcohol does not mean you cannot ccw, 51% does.

    ETA - In TX...

    OP - What state do you live in? What does the state law say?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  18. TK-421

    TK-421

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Messages:
    10,526
    Likes Received:
    1,057
    Location:
    Pflugerville, TX
    Well, you learn something new everyday. I thought it was only if the establishment got 51% of their revenue from alcohol. No idea no guns were allowed period if they had any alcohol license, even if they don't get 51% of their revenue from the sales of it. :crying:
     
  19. SMOKEin

    SMOKEin

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Texas
    Don't take advice on the internet, read the laws. Pages 25 & 26.

    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/forms/chl-16.pdf

    GC §411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
    (a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall
    26 TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS
    prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
    (b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign include on its face the number “51”
     
  20. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    25,147
    Likes Received:
    3,350
    Location:
    Where the buffalo roam
    Actually, we are still welcomed and warmly so at every place we've ever met. We moved the first time because it went non-smoking, the second because it went under (lost their license serving minors too many times), and the third place because it was simply too small and hard to hold a meeting over the blaring TVs the regulars were watching. The last place was perfect because we had our own room (half the dining area accordian-doored off from the church ladies having Sunday brunch. Then came the election and a discussion of an endorsement of a local candidate. The meeting got so heated and language that would make a sailor blush was hurled with such ferocity that when the meeting broke up (early), the accordian door was pulled back to a dining room completely empty with half-eaten food on every table. We're now going back to the small place with the TVs...she's going to open before noon for us but no alcohol. HH