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Carry pistol and accuracy?

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by vart, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. Tack-driver; under 2".

    15 vote(s)
    6.6%
  2. Average, at least 3" or better.

    77 vote(s)
    33.8%
  3. Center of Mass hit of about 6-8".

    98 vote(s)
    43.0%
  4. I don't care; I'll probably never shoot anyone that far away.

    38 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. vart

    vart

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    I bought a new S&W PC Shield in 9mm and was horrified to discover that it couldn't group better than 12" at 25yds due to a improperly machined barrel. Sent it back and two months later got another screwed up barrel that grouped 8" at 25yds. I sold it off and now have an XDS that will do under 2" at 25yds.

    At the time of this ongoing debacle, many members mocked me for wanting a self-defense pistol capable of sub 3" groups at 25yds. Their argument was that most self-defense shootings happened at less than 7yds so 25yd accuracy wasn't important.

    I disagree and think that the pistol that you rely on to protect your life and the lives of your loved ones with should have at least average accuracy.

    Since then, I've seen a few threads here and there with comments about how the owner doesn't really care about accuracy as long as it can hit a man-sized target at 25yds.

    That kind of thinking seems odd to me.

    Wondering what the general consensus is...
     
  2. bac1023

    bac1023

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    I don't expect the utmost accuracy from a service pistol, especially a small one.

    Consistently 3" at 25 yards is a bit optimistic from a subcompact, in my opinion.
     
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  3. oldandtreacherous

    oldandtreacherous

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    I guess I'm minimalist but I don't really practice beyond 5-7 much anymore except for a few singles at a longer distance, so how my Shield PC does with 25 yds groups I don't know. If I can put one in the torso I'm good.
     
  4. Nakanokalronin

    Nakanokalronin JMB & MTK

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    I've owned two 9mm M&P Shields, one 9c and two FS9s and none of them were close to the accuracy of both my FS45s or Shield 45. I expect no less than decent accuracy out of any gun I buy.
     
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  5. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    I don't shoot pistols off a rest. If I can keep them on the head of an IDPA target or an 8" plate at 25 yards offhand, I'm happy.
     
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  6. Monkeybomb

    Monkeybomb Resident Misantrope

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    I have no idea what my service pistol, G-22. could do from a ransom rest. I generally shoot from 3 yards to 25 yards and I have pie plate accuracy while under time. (this includes point shooting and flash front sight picture out to 7 yards). I can keep the same pie plate accuracy slowing down at 50 yards.

    Most people can't shoot as well as a reasonable quality weapon can.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
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  7. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    12" @ 25 yards is pretty bad but I think 4" or less is acceptable.

    People are not going to shoot 4" groups in a self-defense situation anyway, though obviously you don't need a gun's inaccuracy compounding the problem.
     
  8. vikingsoftpaw

    vikingsoftpaw DEPLORABLE ME!

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    The answer to that $64K question is accuracy (beyond a certain point) usually sacrifices reliability.
     
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  9. rds95991

    rds95991

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    I like accurate guns. When I worked at a gun store, I would look through the boxes to find the tightest groups on the test targets that came with the guns and buy them. I picked up a lot of Walthers that way.

    Practicality wise, from what I understand, in most cases if you shoot someone much beyond 10 yards, self defense may be hard to prove. But that is a topic for elsewhere.

    The sights on most self defense concealable weapons usually are abysmal.

    Even with the large guns, sight radius is typically very short so just the error from the short sight radius is not insignificant but I guess you can always use a ransom rest.

    So even it the gun is capable of shooting 3" groups at 25yards, everything seems to work against you trying to do it and in an instance you have to use it, it won't be on a range and it won't be from a rest.

    That's what I like about GSSF and liked about IDPA. The practical accuracy of the guns.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  10. Jumpstady

    Jumpstady

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    bac1023, I'm with you. Very few compact type pistols can shoot in to 3" at 25 yards. My Performance Center 945 can do that off a rest but most of my 1911's that sold for under a grand can not. I have revolvers that can.
    I have shot NRA Action pistol with some high master folks. 3" 6 round group at 25 yards is dam good shooting.
     
  11. vart

    vart

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    I find that hard to believe. ALL of my pistols will do under 3" at 25 yards. Hell, my brother and I were shooting under that at 20 yards off-hand...

    Albeit I've only owned three compact pistols; my M&P40C, the Shield, and now my XDS. The XDS will do 1 3/4" at 25yds with cheap WWB ammo...

     
  12. poodleplumber

    poodleplumber

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    I'm happy with myself and my pistol if I can stay in the center of mass or on the head of a half-sized silhouette at that distance.
     
  13. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Yeah, I don't bench test my carry pistols for accuracy. I do that with target guns and others I'm curious about.

    A Glock 43 or S&W Shield aren't exactly my idea of 25 yard range guns. I honestly couldn't care less what they group at that distance.
     
  14. hogarth

    hogarth

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    I'd like as accurate as possible a that range. Would love for accuracy issues at 25 yds to be based on me, not the gun. Right now I'm keeping all my shots from my G43 on a 3x5 card at 15 yds (not off a rest), and gonna keep pushing it back.
     
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  15. treg

    treg

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    I like shooting gophers out in the yard and pastures.
    Sometimes them little buggers and other targets of opportunity are waaaay out there.
    Waaaay out there isn't so far with your carry gun, but it does require an "accurate" set-up.
     
  16. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Big difference between whether we are talking mechanical accuracy of the gun vs off-hand shooting.

    Off-hand shooting not only involves our skill, but also how the particular gun fits us.

    And with group size there is a big difference between a single best 5 shot group vs a 25 shot group.

    Also a huge difference between slowfire and rapid fire.

    When people talk group size, there is a lot of mixing up of these things in the conversation :)
     
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  17. sciolist

    sciolist

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    I've actually never tried to group my 26. It's easy enough to bang away on a 6 inch plate at 20 yards with it, though. My 19's (which is what I actually carry) will definitely group under 3 inches offhand at 25 yards, although I prefer to group at 17-20 yards. I can see better at that distance.

    I don't have any plans to shoot anyone, ever, at any distance. From a practical standpoint though, the reason you'd want mechanical accuracy in a carry gun would be more along the lines of a mid-range danger shot. Something along the lines of a perp between your wife and daughter.
     
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  18. sciolist

    sciolist

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    He said mechanical accuracy of the gun. That's the premise, not shooter skill. My impression is that mechanical accuracy of a G34 is about 1.5 inches at 25 yards with my production ammo. I can usually group my 34's inside 1.5 inches at 17 yards offhand, and the 19's aren't far behind. I don't think the 26 would be much different.

    So in terms of mechanical accuracy, I'd say 9mm Glocks are generally in the 2 inch range at 25 yards.
     
  19. Lt. Donn

    Lt. Donn PSO Survivor

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    All my firearms are more accurate than I can hold them...that is good enough for me
     
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  20. bac1023

    bac1023

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    I'm thinking most Glocks can do 3" or so at 25 yards from a ransom rest.

    2" seems a bit optimistic to me.