can my club auction off firearms without FFL or ATF paperwork?

Discussion in 'Gun-Control Issues' started by cassandra, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. cassandra

    cassandra

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    Honestly didn't know where to put this. My political club has quite few firearms for our live auction next month, probably more than we've ever had before. I was assuming (hoping) we fell into some exception but after reading the ATF site I'm wondering if we don't need to do NICs checks, use an FFL and fill out some forms.

    I'm sure the club has never done it before but that doesn't mean anything. On top of that our city passed a gun show ordinance requiring NICs. Not sure if that is in effect or not because our good atty general is trying to shoot it down.

    Anyone have experience with this?
     
  2. ruffhunter

    ruffhunter

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    every raffle and give aways ive seen always does a check through a local ffl, im sure for liability reduction.
     
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  3. 835mag

    835mag

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    Still have to have a 4473 through a ffl.
     
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  4. Geeorge

    Geeorge Sarcasm Inc.

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    Sure you can, some people will go to jail but you can do it
     
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  5. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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  6. RichardB

    RichardB Matthew 25:31-46

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    What does your club's attorney advise? Federal, state, and local regulations fall into play.
    My guess is: yes you need to do the entire drill but I have never been in the firearms transfer business

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  7. Grabbrass

    Grabbrass

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    Entry into a lottery or an auction for a firearm should be conditioned upon a disclaimer that the person participating is a not a prohibited person by law. You should also have a well-defined contingency for what to do if the 'winner' doesn't pass the background check. And yeah, the transfer should be done through an FFL. Even if the event were limited to only intrastate participants ... protect your organization.
     
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  8. cassandra

    cassandra

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    Wow. Just got off a long call with a local antiques collector who is not a dealer but deals in antique guns.. he is of the opinion none of this applies but it sounds like yeah that's his opinion.

    We've just been falling through the cracks all these years.

    So several guns are already in my possession. How would a transfer with an FFL work? Take them to a dealer and pay a fee?

    EDIT: RocketFFL says this: "Since the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), firearms that travel interstate (across state lines) must be transferred using a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL). This means that firearm transactions (gift, loan, sale, etc.) that happen within the same state don’t require an FFL."

    I have added a disclaimer that winning bidder must be a MT resident.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  9. Blanton

    Blanton

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    Pistols, rifles? Either way a club should now don't you think? Hell, our motorcycle club has done it and knows enough to go through an ffl
     
  10. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    Antique guns are likely exempt from regulation.
     
  11. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    My club always used a gun dealer.




    Of course, he was a member of the club so he also handled all the GSSF and IDPA prize guns.
     
  12. AF-Odin

    AF-Odin

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    Our Local ######### chapter raffles off a firearm every year. We have a deal with a local FFL to do the NICS check and the 4473 for us for free. Ticket stubs state that winner must pass NICs check and fill out 4473 with dealer to receive prize.
     
  13. cassandra

    cassandra

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    Yes I think that's it. And he's kind of an institution here who may be operating in a gray area. Some of the vendors at his shows sell new stuff.
     
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  14. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    For the feds, it all depends on whether you are carrying on a business.

    A guy called me the other day and said ATF told him that at his for-profit shooting range he could loan customers guns without an FFL. I told him I didn't really believe that was right, since the guns attract customers to his range that he's running for money, but he called back and said ATF sent it to him in writing - he can charge people to shoot, sell them ammo and loan them guns with no FFL. Those guys can be hard to predict.
     
  15. Russ Not the Mod

    Russ Not the Mod

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    I will chime in and say best to cover your Political Club's six Cassandra.
     
  16. cassandra

    cassandra

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    Yeah thanks everyone for the help. I called a local dealer/FFL who is a retired cop and he said issue is civil liability (at least that's how I understood it) and that anyone who doesn't do a proper FFL transfer is being stupid. He offered FFL transfer services gratis, and told me what language to use and how to carry this out properly.

    Now, to convince the committee tonight that we need to do this...I can hear it now. Never had to do this before! LOL
     
  17. chiefjack

    chiefjack

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    WAIT JUST A DERN MINUTE THERE!!!! Doesn't that "Gun show loophole" apply here? They can just use that "Loophole" and make all kinds of $$$$.
     
  18. blackjack

    blackjack

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    I gave similar advice to an area Chamber of Commerce after I won their raffle of an AR-15 patrol rifle from Colt. They had already purchased the rifle through a local FFL and thought they needed to do a transfer through another FFL to me as the winner. The second FFL declined to participate since it is not required by either federal or state law (OK). I showed them my state CCW to show I had passed background checks and was not a prohibited person. I told them that their future raffles should be for the full value of the gun and that the raffle winner would have to go through the usual process at their selected dealer.
     
  19. GigG

    GigG Reformed 1911 Shooter

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    Even if there is some loophole that would allow the transfer not through an FFL for a gun you are selling "quite few firearms".

    Find an FFL that believes in what your political club believes in and get him to do it right.
     
  20. Pierre!

    Pierre! NRA Life Member

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    I agree with the thought that the FFL is needed.

    Possibly not to satisfy laws which you might be able to get around...

    Most importantly is to make sure your Political Club Is Above Board In All Things.

    And wouldn't it be awesome to have one of your firearms show up in a Mass Shooting or Robbery???

    When in doubt avoid ANY appearance of "Sin" on behalf of your Political Club.

    Unless it's one of the Socialistic Liberalist FEEELINGS Clubs... :exercise:

    Which I sincerely doubt is the case... :)
    :waving: