Can I shoot major 40 with my glock?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by latech15, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. latech15

    latech15

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    First of all let me start with my reloading troubles with my lone wolf barrel. I am using a lee resizing die sizing all the way down. I am using 180 gr tc moly coated bullets.

    The issue that I am having is that 10 percent of the rounds that I make are not headspacing correctly. they actually headspace ont he lead in front of the cartridge mouth. I have taken all the measurements on a bullet that falls freely into the barrel and those that don't and I can't find any differences.

    I have tried more crimp, less crimp, glock barrel, LW Barrel. All give the same result basically. the best I can get out of changing all of those is 90 percent reliability.

    I did have a friend who has been reloading for years tell me that I would be ok dropping my OAL a bit as long as I am not approaching max pressure. I am on the very bottom end right now (4.7 gr wsf to 1.125 OAL) The problem is that if I want to make major withthat round I am going to have to up that to approximately 5.6 gr of WSF. The question is that if I up the charge to make major AND reduce the OAL to 1.115 to make them feed reliably, SHOOTING a GLOCK, am I going to have a KABOOM?
     
  2. Brass Nazi

    Brass Nazi NO BRASS FOR U!

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    When you reduce the OAL you will raise pressures at least initially after firing. The additional pressure may carry throughout the the entire internal ballistic cycle and it may not. Point being you may not have to use as much powder as you think you will to make major. The only way to know is to work your load up. Whenever you reduce your OAL work your load up from scratch.

    You also could have the chamber/barrel reamed to give you a longer throat.
     

  3. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Your bullets are probably tilting and causing the heel of the bullet to bulge the case out on one side. This happens when the bullet nose doesn't fit the seater stem well. Take a close look at the ones that don't chamber and see if they have a bulge on one side corresponding to the base of the bullet.
     
  4. fredj338

    fredj338

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    What bullet are you using? It sounds like you are hitting the rifling w/ the shoulder of the tC. Not uncommon on LW bbls. They, for what ever reason, seem to short throat them. You could send it back to them for opening up, I believe it is no charge.
    You can seat slightly deeper, just adjust your powder charge down a bit to hit w/ the same vel. All things being equal, higher vel=higher pressures. I run 5.7-5.8gr under a 175grLRNFP @ 1.125"-1.130" for about 975fps from my USP. If you are going to need to drop to 1.115", just work back upto that 950fps threshold. A 0.01" deeper seating will not raise pressures much on a load end to mid load. As you get closer to the top, you have to pay closer attention, but even then, 0.01" (less than 1/64") isn't very noticeable, at least on the chronograph. You can have that much variation in bullet nose shapes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  5. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    Cough, Cough, Case Gauge, Cough.
     
  6. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    90% chance Fred or Wisky are right.

    LOTS of loads will work just fine in a stock Glock making Major. You just need to work it up on a chrono with a powder that your load manual says does not go over pressure trying to make Major.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  7. DWARREN123

    DWARREN123 Grumpy Old Guy

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    Using Hodgdon's Longshot powder at 7.5gr and JHP or TC 180gr bullets I do not have this problem.
    I crimp/seat to where the case/bullet will fit the chamber and mag. I make sure the loaded round will drop from the chamber freely.
    I have had no problems with this procedure and the rounds actually come out at 1.125 +-.002.
    I would say the crimp or OAL is off.
    My bullets can not be pushed into the case easy after being loaded.
     
  8. MarkTX

    MarkTX

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    Let's back up a minute and have you check something. Take those 10% that aren't headspacing correctly and see if they drop into the factory stock barrel ? If they do, I suspect its not the OAL that's causing the problem -but rather the bulged brass that doesn't get sized down enough at the base.

    The reason I bring this up is because I also use a Lone Wolf Barrel in my Glock 40s that shoot IDPA. And I have found about that same percentage of once fired brass 10% does not get sized down enough (using my Lee resizing die) to chamber in my Lone Wolf Barrels. I just use my LWB to check each round before taking them to a competition.

    I bet you will find the brass fired out of your Lone Wolf Barrel will size and reload just fine for many reloadings without every having this problem.

    As for making major, there's no reason you can't safely do that with reloaded 40's. Granted, as an IDPA shooter I'm reloading toward the other end (40 minor) -but with your Lone Wolf Barrel and good reloading practice it should be easy to get a safe 180gr load moving around 920fps...
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  9. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    What kind of press? Is the die tight to the shellplate and lifting the toolhead to take out the slop? Have you measured the base to see if it has a area that has not been sized just below where the sizing die stops?
     
  10. Wash-ar15

    Wash-ar15

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    make up some dummy rounds and send them and the barrel to lonewolf and ask them to increase the throat.
     
  11. latech15

    latech15

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    Thanks for all the responses.

    Colorado4Wheel: That is the messed up part. ALL of the rounds, even the ones that don't work in the barrel, are dropping in perfectly in a headspace guage.

    I think there is something to that idea that the bullets are feeding in crooked. When I hold the finished round up to a straight edge, I notice that on one side of the round I get the pretty taper crimpviews where there is no light at the bottom and a slight bit of light showing starting about 1/3 from the top and growing to the case mouth. On the same round, I rotate the round 180 and I see the straight edge touching at the shoulder and the mouth, with light showing in between.

    Question is, how do I make sure that the bullets are feeding in perfectly straight? I am not sure but I don't think the lee seat/crimp die has an interchangeable head for different shape bullets does it?

    I have checked since my last post and OAL shortening doesn't fix the problem either. But I don't see rifling marks on the lead either.

    There is a small area, approximately 1/16" from the shoulder that is not being sized, but I can drop the round in the barrel, primer end first and it has no problems.

    Someone told me that it could be more of an alignment issue with the bulge and that dropping the round in backewards wouldn't be a guage of the bulge because the lead is causing it to align differently when dropped in correctly. They suggested that I buy a separate single stage press and run each round through a Redding push through die. I just can't believe that everyone loading "glocked" 40's is having to do this every time. I could be wrong and that may be where I end up but I hope not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  12. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Unfortuntaely, the case gages do NOT tell you if the round will fit in your gun, just that it meets a ertain spec for the diameter.
    If this is happening, a case gage won't tell you that, your bbl will. If your bbl is short throated, or you are seating too long, your bbl will engrave onto the bullet. Pretty easy to see if you drop one into the bbl. If it fits the case gage & not the bbl, it's likely a seating issue. Pics would help, so would a better description of the failure. Now you are saying the cartridge isn't "headpacing" on the bullets shoulder. It could be crimp, could be oversized bulelt, undersized chamber, etc, etc. Did you mic the bullets, are they 0.401" or larger?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  13. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Take one of your noncomforming rounds, the ones with the bulge on one side as shown with the straight edge, and push it into the barrel. Use a cleaning rod to knock it back out if you have to. Look at the bulge and see if it's gotten polished from interfering with the chamber wall.
     
  14. JSharp

    JSharp

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    Some pictures of what the failed rounds look like after you try to chamber them would help.

    I'm curious about this since I've loaded over 1K 165 gr plated bullets for my G23 and never had a problem. It also has a Lone Wolf barrel and it's 100% reliable.

    It's not too difficult to make 170 PF with 165's and WSF.
     
  15. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    Are you using a headspace gauge or a case gauge? I had some issues with bullets going in a little off with one of my seating dies. I switched bullets and that solved the issue. The Lee Seating Die has a concave seating stem. It's a little rough. You may want to see if you can put it in a drill and polish up the inside a little. Maybe yours needs that. Also, be sure to use enough flare. My Lee seater works fine with TC bullets in 10mm. Do the empty cases all chamber fine? Try 30 of them just to be sure. Size them and roll them on a flat table. Look for a wobble. Do the same with a loaded round that fails to chamber. Look for that wobble in the bullet. It's obvious if the case don't wobble but the case/bullet combo wobble that it's the seating stem or not enough flare.
     
  16. latech15

    latech15

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    Coloroado4 wheel -

    Sorry for the confusion. I am using a headspace guage. Link me to a case guage please. The bad rounds to guage (headspace) fine, they just don't chamber.

    Take a look at this video and see if that helps

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-CEeDQGmhE
     
  17. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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  18. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    Watched the Video. That looks like my Dillon Case Gauge. If it is then it does not check the possibility of the bullet hitting the rifling. From watching about 1/2 the video (it crashed for some reason) it sure looks like those bullet are hitting the rifling. Try to seat those that failed a little deeper and see if the pass.
     
  19. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

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    Just caught the video of your problems... I scanned through all the post and the question seems to have been asked but not answered.

    What press and dies set-up are you using?

    I have a suspect that your problem is a result of the possible combination of your dies being off and the bullets not seating straight into the cases when you place them in, possibly not enough flare.

    I think you should rewind and recheck your press set-up, especially the cleanliness of your dies, particularly the seating one. Also if your press uses a shellplate that it's tight.
    I had a problem with lube shaving buildup in my seating die when first attempting to load lead 9mm. The results were a minute rolled shavings on the bullet would get trapped between the bullet and case. Thus ununiform around the bulllet crimp area opening up the flare resolved the issue.

    How long have you had that LWD barrel, how many rounds? Have you rechecked your LWD with factory ammo to see how much headspace you have before the bullets touch you rifling?

    I really think you have a set-up issue here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  20. dsmw5142

    dsmw5142 NRA Member

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