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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In the past I had done a lot of testing of components for my 43x but I had never thought to measure how different trigger shoes might have an effect on trigger pull weight. And with a new Wheeler gauge I decided to do some testing. A Lyman would have indeed be more accurate but I would have to think if I paid attention to consistency in my technique the Wheeler would be close enough.

The two shoes I still have hooked up to trigger bars are the Johnny Glock flat face trigger shoe and the Johnny Glock smooth face OEM modded trigger shoe. In the test I was as meticulous as I could be to find where the center of my index finger's pad rests on the trigger face and did my very best to make sure I measured from the same spot. I was also sure to make sure the pull was always straight back, that the gauge's bar was just above the handle to minimize any leverage in any other plane than straight back as best as could be done.

I actually wasn't surprised as I suspected there would be a difference as the flat face trigger shoe does not have the same glass rod break that the OEM shoe does and has a very slight amount of trigger creep after "the wall". That would indicate to me that the flat face shoe had more leverage but had to travel a slightly greater distance to achieve the break. The roll is very slight.

It should be stated that the connector in all of these tests is a Taran Tactical (TTI) connector, which is very similar to the OEM connector, but smoother and probably reduces the trigger pull over the OEM connector by about 1/4 pound.

While I had an inkling that there would be a difference in trigger pull weights between these two different shoes I never would have guessed that it would have been roughly 3/4 pound across the board. Unfortunately I no longer own the Overwatch PolyDat trigger shoe which would have added a bit more data. I was also surprised that going from a 4.5 pound spring to a 5 pound spring didn't produce much in the way of different results as measured.

One of the take-aways that I get from this is that if advising someone who wants a more comfortable shoe and a bit lighter trigger pull and staying as safe as possible, buy the Johnny Glock flat face shoe (whose bonus is you can reduce over-travel and comes with a safe pre-travel reduction built in) and keep the OEM connector and springs and just polish the internals for smoother action. There is little need to replace the connector (the OEM and TTI are very similar. I'd be happy with the OEM if I hadn't purchased the TTI just to see how it stacked up). A 5 pound spring with a OEM connector would easily get you to 4 pounds. FWIW, while the 5 pounds spring as a similar pull weight to the OEM spring, I find it less harsh and feels better (4.5 and 5 are Wolff springs). I know that sounds counterintuitive, but that's my feeling.

But anyway... Here's the small table of data that I compiled.


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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Your findings are very similar to my own.
So many threads have passed by talking about reducing trigger pull weight and I hadn't seen one that mentioned that a trigger shoe change could have such an affect without changing any other parts. If you're using an OEM trigger bar, connector and springs, a shoe from a known/reputable shop should make it a pretty innocuous parts swap and yet provide a decent reduction in trigger pull weight without changing anything else.
 
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So many threads have passed by talking about reducing trigger pull weight and I hadn't seen one that mentioned that a trigger shoe change could have such an affect without changing any other parts. If you're using an OEM trigger bar, connector and springs, a shoe from a known/reputable shop should make it a pretty innocuous parts swap and yet provide a decent reduction in trigger pull weight without changing anything else.
That’s why I just throw a polydat trigger shoe only on my Glocks. I just don’t like the oem shoe but everything else is good to go imo. Keep oem reliability, barely reduce the weight with a much more comfortable to me shoe.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That’s why I just throw a polydat trigger shoe only on my Glocks. I just don’t like the oem shoe but everything else is good to go imo. Keep oem reliability, barely reduce the weight with a much more comfortable to me shoe.
I sold my Poly Dat. It just wasn’t for me. However it was 100x more comfortable than the serrated OEM shoe. What’s nice about the poly dat is that they provide a trigger bar, though only cursorily polished. But to be honest I like the JG smooth oem shoe better. However the JG flat face shoe is my overall favorite. But with my new data I will want to train with one of the heavier striker springs. Though the #5 and OEM were similar I found the OEM spring more of a wrestling match getting on and off the striker.
 
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I sold my Poly Dat. It just wasn’t for me. However it was 100x more comfortable than the serrated OEM shoe. What’s nice about the poly dat is that they provide a trigger bar, though only cursorily polished. But to be honest I like the JG smooth oem shoe better. However the JG flat face shoe is my overall favorite. But with my new data I will want to train with one of the heavier striker springs. Though the #5 and OEM were similar I found the OEM spring more of a wrestling match getting on and off the striker.
I’ve been waiting for the flat face shoe and combat trigger bar from JG to come back in stock for a few months now. I’d like to get it just to have a trigger shoe from a guy I know has thoroughly tested drop safety.
 

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Did you use the same bar for both shoes?
If you just want the shoe and not the hassle of swapping them over to your stock bar, polydat and JG both provide OEM (but polished) trigger bars. Making swapping the shoes out a quick and simply process.
 

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If you just want the shoe and not the hassle of swapping them over to your stock bar, polydat and JG both provide OEM (but polished) trigger bars. Making swapping the shoes out a quick and simply process.
I was asking about the bar because the only way for this test to hold water, is to use the same bar for both shoes. Different bars will yield different results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
I’ve been waiting for the flat face shoe and combat trigger bar from JG to come back in stock for a few months now. I’d like to get it just to have a trigger shoe from a guy I know has thoroughly tested drop safety.
If the shoe is in stock get that and cannibalize the one from the OEM shoe. Glock is not shipping parts to anyone these days and using everything for their own production. The pins can be knocked out of the OEM shoe without destroying the shoe itself and the JG flat face shoe uses screws to attach the bar. FWIW I have an OEM bar and one that JG sent me. To be honest I cannot see a difference in the geometry. I have the OEM bar on the flat face shoe and the one JG sent on his smooth face shoe. The only difference I can see is that the striker lug sits a little deeper on the JG bar, but I don't think that's anything that Johnny's done to it as he would have had to have my gun to know how to adjust it. I'm sure it's just one of Glocks wide windows of precision that allows the difference to exist. If I were recommending the flat face shoe to a friend I'd tell them to save the $50 for his trigger bar. One of the mods he used to make to the bar was to re-shape the vertical extension (that contacts the plunger safety) but he told me he doesn't do that any more. I didn't see any difference of the radius of the birds beak, so other than polishing I don't see anything that I can spot visually.

I was asking about the bar because the only way for this test to hold water, is to use the same bar for both shoes. Different bars will yield different results.
@Para-bellum "Ah okay, yes you’re right. ESP because the bars come polished. " While I wouldn't expect you to assume I polished the OEM bar, but I did. And while I don't have "7 wheels", smooth is smooth. I manually removed all the burrs with 1000 grit paper and when I could no longer feel any sign of burrs or striations I then polished it with a felt wheel and Flitz polish. The JG bar is no smoother than the one that I polished.

Yes... and no. Theoretically you are correct. But I didn't feel much of a difference when A/Bing the bars even though I could see the striker lug purchased a bit differently with the aid of an armorers plate. One of the cool things about (latest version of) JG's flat face shoe is that the trigger bar is fastened in with allen screws rather than pins. So it was easy to test the bars back to back. Again, on the same shoe if there was any difference in feel it was imperceptible. I can't even tell you why I use the stock OEM trigger bar with the flat face shoe and the JG bar with his OEM shoe. It didn't make enough difference for me to care and I kept the OEM bar on and just pinned the JG bar on the modded Glock shoe. If there had been any noticeable difference I would certainly be using his trigger bar on his "premium" shoe. My experience tells me that is isn't worth the effort to remove the bar which are now pinned into the Glock shoe. My personal guess is that the difference between the bars wouldn't exceed .25 pounds.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
UPDATE- ADDITIONAL DATA!

I thought about some folks stance on "OEM only", so I decided that now after having trained with my 43x for 10 months, most of the time with 3rd party shoe, connector, and 4.5 pound spring, I decided I want to train with a setup as close to OEM as I can tolerate... which means a HARD NO to the Neanderthal trigger shoe, but OEM otherwise throughout. So back in went the OEM striker spring and OEM connector.

After replacing the 4.5 pound striker spring in my 43x I thought it might be a good opportunity to see how three different connectors affected trigger pull with everything else being constant. Note: The connector tests were all done with a Johnny Glock Flat Face shoe installed. [ I believe it is the best design with built in safety that you might not find in other advanced shoe designs.] As you can see from the chart below, going from a 4.5 pound spring to a 5 pound reduced the trigger pull only by 1/4 pound and moving back to the OEM spring brought the trigger pull weight to 4.5 pounds with both OEM and TTI connectors. The difference in these two connectors is mainly feel. There isn't enough difference in these connectors to have to have to defend the TTI in court, though I believe it to be the better connector. However, you will see that the Ghost Pro connector does reduce the trigger pull weight by (only) 1/2 pound, but the trade-off for the pull reduction is having more of a "rolling break" which is attributable to that connector's geometry, introducing more leverage and slightly longer trigger pull (see connector geometry comparison illustration below).

Personal observations/position: Now being more familiar with the 43x I'm sure that going from a 3.5 pound pull to a 4.5 pound pull won't be a major adjustment. It might be important to note in this case, the trigger shoe influenced trigger pull weight more than the connector and as much as the difference in lightest to heaviest striker springs! A 5.25 pound trigger pull isn't unreasonable either, but for clarity, the OEM shoe used for testing was Johnny Glock's modified OEM shoe, which is a huge improvement over what comes stock in a 43x or 48 with the serrated shoe. I am confident that it is every bit as reliable a an unmodified OEM shoe. An added benefit to this shoe is that it can be adjusted to take up unnecessary slop which would be beneficial for those with a shorter reach. The reason I choose the Johnny Glock flat face shoe for my 43x is that it has a pre set pre-travel reduction, insuring that it won't put the firearm in an unsafe position and also has an over-travel adjustment which helps improve accuracy but doesn't affect safety at all. As noted, the trigger pull with the JG flat face shoe is a full pound lighter than his OEM shoe. I believe that the design of the pin placements creating more leverage is responsible for the decrease in trigger pull weight of the flat face shoe.

Live long and prosper!

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