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For example you like the Gold Dot version 1.0 but eventually they will have a version 2.0 and later 3.0. Basically to keep designers employed.

I hoard my Law Enforcement Duty ammo. I have Winchester Ranger 9mm 147 JHP headstamped 1995, some from 2010 and the latest production. It appears the design of the JHP has changed. We have great street results so I will continue using it.
 

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For example you like the Gold Dot version 1.0 but eventually they will have a version 2.0 and later 3.0. Basically to keep designers employed.

I hoard my Law Enforcement Duty ammo. I have Winchester Ranger 9mm 147 JHP headstamped 1995, some from 2010 and the latest production. It appears the design of the JHP has changed. We have great street results so I will continue using it.
Yeah, I've put back various vintages and revisions of the SXT/T-series, myself, as it was available. Mostly the 127gr +P+ and 147gr, although I did use some of the 124gr +P when it was the duty load for a while, and on the state contract. The NorCal Winchester distributor used to have a large glass display case of the line for walk-in individual officer sales. I should've bought even more when it was cheaper, as there came a time some years ago when the pricing virtually doubled.
 

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For example you like the Gold Dot version 1.0 but eventually they will have a version 2.0 and later 3.0. Basically to keep designers employed.

I hoard my Law Enforcement Duty ammo. I have Winchester Ranger 9mm 147 JHP headstamped 1995, some from 2010 and the latest production. It appears the design of the JHP has changed. We have great street results so I will continue using it.
We are already a few generations into the Gold Dot and most popular defensive loads. Here is some relevant information. I’ve never been real big on 9mm, so I don’t have as much of it to keep track with.


 

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With gold dots, HST and Critical Duty, can 9MM SD ammo get any better? If so, how?
"Better" is always going to be in the eye of the beholder (and the agencies asking for revisions to suit their fancy).

The engineers designing the new JHP's are working to achieve designs that meet the commonly requested performance standards by the major users (LE/Gov), and they sometimes quietly revise them as needed, or as further requested.

Now, some of the bargain/bulk or older style JHP designs? Well, some sometimes needed a bit more velocity to drive their deformation and expansion, and some were seemingly a coin toss for consistent expansion at any velocity (presuming they didn't plug and essentially become Ball).

Having seen the ebb and flow of the duty/defensive ammunition designs over the decades, I'm much less picky regarding what I load my pistol magazines or revolver cylinders with for my retirement CCW's. As long as it's one of the premium offerings from one of the big names (Federal, Remington, Winchester, Speer or Hornady), I'm not losing any sleep over it. I'm also less concerned with "performance" in plywood & sheet metal, and to a degree I'm not particularly about auto glass tests. I look for the potential for robust and consistent expansion, and reasonable penetration, as demonstrated in Bare Gel, Heavy Cloth and 4 Layer Denim tests done by any of the ammo makers (preferably using organic gel).

At the end of the day, it's still just one or another brand and design of JHP bullet, though. It still requires the user to do their part.
 

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Does hollow point ammo really give you an advantage? I'd say no. I've been carrying Speer Gold Dots for 15 years and making sure I send a bunch through every carry gun to test reliability. But...

A hole in a vital organ is deadly regardless of ammo. A shot to a non vital area is not deadly regardless of super expensive expanding hollow point ammo.

Fmjs are cheaper. In some cases feed more reliably. Consistent feel and shot placement with majority of your training. I guess HPs would penetrate less which some people might want. I don't know. Maybe I’ll start packing fmj in all handguns. Shot placement is top priority.
 

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I am simply relating what an outstanding instructor related to me. He was able to shoot accurately a handgun, pistol, shotugn or rifle while walking or running.

He did not reload. He did not spend money on defensive ammunition. He bought CCI white box ammo for pistols. Why? It went bang every time he pulled the trigger. He hit wherever he aimed.

If you are a person who is not capable of accurate shooting while in movement or have not physical handicaps, but simply do not want o spend the money to learn, then go out and buy whatever is marketed as defensive rounds. You probably will shoot from a static position so it probably won't make any difference which round marketed as a defensive round you use. Just unload on the bad guy as fast as you can.
 

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Yes. Better already exists. It's called Winchester NATO Q4318. 124 grain FMJ. More or less +P ball. Primers crimped and sealed. Case mouth sealed.

All my defense guns are loaded with Q4318.
I was gifted a 100 rounds of this. How hot is it? I would assume perfectly safe for any full size 9MM. Frankly, since it was FMJ I never thought of it as a self defense round as I wondered about over penetration. How does it shoot, and what are you shooting? Thanks for any feed back.
 

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Yes. Better already exists. It's called Winchester NATO Q4318. 124 grain FMJ. More or less +P ball. Primers crimped and sealed. Case mouth sealed.

All my defense guns are loaded with Q4318.
Why? The 9mm is a decent sd round but not with ball ammo.
I think there is always room for a better bullet design. The HST is pretty damn good. It would be better if they figure a way out to bond the core & still get double dia expansion. Though from gel tests, seems like 75cal is about the practical limit unless you add more mass which adds more recoil.
 

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Yes. Better already exists. It's called Winchester NATO Q4318. 124 grain FMJ. More or less +P ball. Primers crimped and sealed. Case mouth sealed.

All my defense guns are loaded with Q4318.
I think anyone with recent military experience who ever had to shoot someone with a sidearm disagrees with you, as well as those who have done any research or testing
 

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Yes. Better already exists. It's called Winchester NATO Q4318. 124 grain FMJ. More or less +P ball. Primers crimped and sealed. Case mouth sealed.

All my defense guns are loaded with Q4318.
I’ve have a ton of this I’ve been shooting as practice ammo. At the time, it was the FMJ I could get that was cheapest.

I thought ball ammo was ball ammo.

What makes this better than the stash of 124gr HST. I have saved up?
 
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