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Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning' started by California Jack, Feb 21, 2007.
Not quite on par with Brad's new jump rope, I just ordered a C2 Rower.
Woohoo! Big spender! That should be an awesome addition. I've used the one at the gym a few times and it's weird. I have no particular muscle that's tired, but then I feel really heavy when I stand up.
Big spender, yeah, I guess that's one of the advantages to being out of school. I hope it works out well.
Still, what are those, like $850-950 after shipping? That's not that bad compared to other machines like StairMasters. I can't remember how much we gave for ours 4 years ago.
I'm not completely sure how to use a C2. I just did 5000m for time. That's a pretty hard workout, about 20-25 minutes. You know that feeling of extra gravity that you feel after getting off a trampoline or getting out of a pool? That's how I felt after getting off the C2, like everything was tired at the same time. I might get one of those someday.
Yeah $850 plus shipping. Significantly cheaper than the my wifes treadmill. Ships friday or monday. I am going to become an indoor rower and a weightlifter.
Maybe it is because I am a wussy, but Crossfit just doesn't do it for me.
I thought of running and weight training but I think that rowing will interfere less with my strength goals than running would. What do you think of that statement?
An additional benefit of the C2 is they have quite a community going. They give awards for rowing a million meters. They keep yearly age group rankings for numerous distances (I think this will be very motivational for me). They have on-line racing as well as actual meets.
Another benefit is I'll be able to workout at home. I am an overly protective Dad and don't like leaving my kids at home while I go run. I'll be able to do my cardio at home in the morning without waking my kids.
I think, for me, it will be a good investment.
Hopefully I'll be able to get my wife interested too.
As far as use, I think you do intervals mixed in with longer steady state rowing. I know the serious rowers track power output while training. Maybe something about this appeals to my engineering side.
I hear ya on all accounts.
As time goes on, I have a bigger and bigger problem with CF's documentation and beginner instruction. It IS a free service... I have several good examples of "it wooda been nice if ya told me that before I hurt [whatever]!", but I'll save them for another time.
I think you're probably right about rowing interfering less with strength training. Running requires a tremendous amount of recovery time, for us mere mortal runners anyway, otherwise the risk of injury is high, IMO. So far, I haven't been sore or seemed to need recovery from rowing. Probably would if I did it enough and I might be doing something wrong.
I really like that community stuff too. It says something that there's no worldwide gathering of elliptical machine at which they compete! I like that about CF too.
Supposed to arrive next thursday. I'm actually excited about this!
Hey Guys! I've been out of town and then caught a nasty GI bug so been off the forum for awhile.
Brad, congrats on the new addition to your family! Before you know it, she'll be driving and dating and you still won't get any sleep!! And you'll be grayer and more wrinkled -- at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it! Seriously, congrats!!!
Hey Jack, did you check Ebay for a C2 rower? Just curious. I shopped for one a few years back and the guy at the fitness store told me to try Ebay. I never did, just wondering if you looked into that.
Did you guys see this scathing review of Crossfit by this guy? Scroll down. FWIW:
No, didn't try e-bay Jack.
I agree with this part of his review.
Ewwww. Sounds like fun. I remember getting something like that when I was 17 and then again at 21. I'm not sure if I felt like I was going to die, thought I was going to die, or wanted to die.
Thank you very much. It's really been great so far. My work and workouts are in trouble, but I'll get back on track.
I've never heard of that guy, so I don't know if he has credible opinions in general. He is certainly abrasive! There were A LOT of things in there that I agreed with, though. I about cracked up at the statements about Lynn Pitts and Eva WhatsHerName.
The more time passes, the more I'm disappointed in some aspects of CF, primarily beginner instruction, or lack thereof. Ultimately, we're individually responsible for avoiding injuries, but I think a lot of the advice given on the board, etc. leads one in directions with high injury probabilities, with little or no warning. A lot of the demo videos demonstrate bad form also, IMO. Just take the deadlift video that was on the front page a few days ago.
Take my buddy who started CF as an example. The typical recommendation is to start by doing the CFWU for a while, maybe a month. He could barely do a single dip or pullup. The typical CF advice, I think, would be to keep at it, do negatives, jumping pullups, etc. He pulled a muscle very badly in his chest on his 2nd or 3rd workout doing dips. I know they mention gravitrons, but I think that's the ONLY safe way for somebody like him to get up to speed. To tell somebody to just struggle with cheat singles or doubles until they get stronger is exactly the same thing as telling a beginner to put his 1-rep bench press max on the bar and go for it over and over, 3 on, 1 off, until he gets better, even using cheat techniques to help get the reps. That's insanity.
My shoulder is another good example. Kipping pullups are thrown around as a standard, normal exercise. One had better be very careful and have some good technique instruction to avoid damaging the shoulder in that bottom position with the arms extended and racked backward. Behind the neck presses are bad, right? Well, they are according to CF, but I digress... The little video and other instruction that I was able to find, in a significant amount of time, btw, was nowhere near enough to get me safely started doing kipping pullups. "Active shoulder"? Coupling that info with the kipping instruction would've been helpful. Now it's coming up on 3 months later and I still can't do upper body work. I'm a little bitter about that.
I have also wondered about Glassman because he doesn't follow the system. Yeah, I know he has an injury, but what about "infinite scalability" and "active recovery"? That stuff is sure preached to all the rest of us.
I agree with that too, especially on the message boards. I've actually read the words "out of line" a few times on there when somebody questioned the dogma.
Besides the obviously good quote about Eva's posterior chain, this was my favorite quote:
Everyone else who questions the workout methodology, wants to do something different, or doesn't think its the greatest thing going is accused of "lacking character" and not wanted within the "ranks".
I think my favorite quote might be the one about CF being Pilates for Type A personalities. That cracks me up.
Ya know, I'm not saying Xfit is total junk ot anything. In fact, I think it is a good system. However, a lot of what is said, both in the link and in this thread, closely describes some of the reasons I am switching my training style back to something more traditional.
Of course another reason is I missed strength training.
Good luck to those of you that persist on with the Xfit.
Hey CalJack, I have a question for you. I think you did CF about 3 months, right? Were your pullup numbers a lot better after than before?
They were better, but not to the extent that yours got better.
You mean before or after I damaged myself?! At least you're smart enough to remain unbroken!
I don't think it was a matter of smart. My goal was conditioning rather than pullup strength. So when I had to, I did jumping pullups so I wouldn't get excessive rest while recovering enough to get antoher one or 2 unassisted pullups. It was my priority at the time.
Also, my equipment can be set up for either dips or pullups. Because of this, I didn't do the official warmup. I didn't put the same amount of work into it that you did.
Wow, I just took some time to read this thread and the Moynihan stuff, and I've got to say, it's so easy to throw stones... I don't give any credence to the Moynihan Institute. It looks like that malcontent just sits at his computer and squawks about anything.
I am not a blind disciple of CrossFit but compare it to the big box gyms. Millions of dollars of gleaming equipment, marketing campaigns to lure you in, then you get stuck with a 2-year contract without knowing what to do - that is their typical member. No help provided unless you pay extra. In fact, they hope you never go back once you sign up.
I have yet to pay CrossFit a single dime yet I am in better shape now, and in shorter amount of time, than when I was a member of a big box gym.
There is always risk of injury when it comes to physical exercise. In fact, you would sign a liability waiver if you joined a gym or get a trainer's advice. Why blame CrossFit for an injury they didn't cause.
It comes down to personal accountability, education, and motivation. Some people need more education than others on fitness. Some may need no outside motivation while others always need someone cheering them on. CrossFit is as much 'one-size-fits-all' as sleeping is one-size-fits-all. Everyone needs it, but we all differ on how much we need and when we need it.
If someone follows CrossFit to the letter, my guess is that most will achieve benefits from it, although that totally depends on where they started. The philosophy of CrossFit is adaptable to just about any level of general fitness for the individual. Moynihan talks about disparaging the bench press and pressing 500 lbs means you are strong. Well, show me a grand-mother that wants or needs to bench press 500 lbs.
Perhaps the most telling aspect of Moynihan's credibility would be that his site is not a blog. It is one-way rant that fulfills his own ego to be a pundit, without fear of someone challenging his opinions.
Well, back to the original topic, the C2.
Today, I sold my last C2. I bought three C2s (all model B) as a package deal from a H.S. rowing coach back in December. I got them for a good deal, and I had a good feeling that I could sell the extra two to make my money back.
I listed them on Craigslist. It was slow going in January and most of February - very few responses and no real offers. Then, just these past 5 days, I sold both of them. I made all of my money back, and then some. So, I essentially got my C2 for free plus an extra $150.
WOW, this just sunk in... I essentially got the equivalent of a free Glock.
I think I need some new bumper plates.