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Buyer Beware Warning-Glocktalk Member

Discussion in 'Smart Shopper' started by JohnnyO1, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. JohnnyO1

    JohnnyO1

    Messages:
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    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    One of our members,hankhan, aka Rich Cower, posted a Milt Sparks VMII for sale about 2 weeks ago. What started out as a Dr. Jeckle purchase, turned out to be a Mr. Hide screwing.

    Rather than let emotions take over I'll simply outline what happened and post the series of emails and let you decide for yourselves.

    All appeared to be fine, until I told the individual the holster did not meet all the criteria I outlined to him in a PM and would like a refund. Once I received his response it made sense to me not to bring up the fact it was the wrong holster altogether. He was a little unhappy I dared say something was wrong.

    Once communications ceased I decided to disclose that information as well. There was nothing more to lose at this point in time as it was clear I got stuck with a holster I didn't want, nor would I take a chance to further lose the holster by returning it and my money, too. His credibility was dirt as far as I was concerned.

    Below are all our email communications. It started with a PM I sent the seller outlining my criteria. My PM was copied and pasted into one of my email correspondence for you to read. I still have it in my outbasket for anyone that would like a copy to verify my truthfullness of what I asked for in the first place. The only info missing in this emails is our addresses. I deleted for obvious reasons. It begins with the last email I sent, as well as the last email between him and I. Period.




    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rich, Another mistake you made is, this holster is not a VMII IWB, but an NP-1 OWB holster. Verified by Tony @ Milt Sparks, per the email I just forwarded to you. It was tough to tell from the pics as its shape resembled a VMII, but once I took it out of your box it was obvious it wasn't an IWB holster at all.

    John




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: "John Orefice" <jorefice@hotmail.com>
    To: rcower@gmail.com
    Subject: Re: pictures
    Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 06:30:29 -0700


    Rich,

    First, you need to lighten up a little. I'm not saying you misrepresented anything. I'm sure there was a mix up between my info and other people that was interested in the holster. It was a simple mistake or misunderstanding. I'm sure by now you checked your PM's over on Glock Talk and see I'm telling you the truth. It was nothing more than a simple mistake, but I didn't make it and should not suffer for it. That's all I'm saying.

    Second, you can't tell belt loop size by a photo.

    Lastly, don't send me cash in the mail. Just another problem waiting to happen. If you don't want to work this out - fine. However, if you want to at least send me your check, so if it gets lost I'm not screwed....

    Let me know how/if you want to work this out. If you do I'll mail the holster back to you tomorrow. If you don't, that's the chance we all take when dealing with strangers over the internet.

    Thank you

    John



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    From: "Rich Cower" <rcower@gmail.com>
    To: "John Orefice" <jorefice@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: pictures
    Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:31:27 -0700


    send it back. I send back cash, since that's what I've got now.


    On 9/28/06, Rich Cower <rcower@gmail.com> wrote:
    Look, I sent pictures, etc. I did not misrepresent this holster and resent you saying I did. We're done with this discussion, you've got your holster - do what you want with it.

    ..rich

    On 9/28/06, John Orefice <jorefice@hotmail.com
    > wrote: On 9/28/06, John Orefice <jorefice@hotmail.com
    > wrote:
    Rich,

    It was sent in a Private Msg on Glock Talk, where you originally posted it. I'll copy/paste exactly what I said.

    Hi, If it meets the following criteria I'll take it.

    1911 5" barrel
    Right hand
    1.5" belt loops

    Please send pics to

    jorefice@hotmail.com

    Then, you responded back to me via "email" saying, The way you described is the way I ordered it. All our emails are attached. You can verify what I'm saying.

    Check your PM, you'll see. I doubled checked my PM before sending you this last email to make sure I didn't make a mistake and accidentally say 1.25" belt loops. I didn't. My PM clearly says 1.5". That was never stated in an email. All our emails are attached for you to see.


    I just forwarded the original PM, in case you don't have it in your inbasket. It's dated. See for yourself. I'm not telling you anything you can't veryify.

    John




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: "Rich Cower" <rcower@gmail.com>
    To: "'John Orefice'" <
    jorefice@hotmail.com>
    Subject: RE: pictures
    Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:46:52 -0700


    I've got all your mail here, you never specified that. If you had, I wouldn't have sent it.



    rich




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: John Orefice [mailto:

    jorefice@hotmail.com]
    Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:21 PM

    To: rcower@gmail.com

    Subject: RE: pictures





    Hi Rich,

    Holster arrived today, in good condition. Small problem though. It has 1.25" belt loops. Check my PM. It said I was looking for 1.5" belt loops. I don't have a

    1.25" belt.

    With your approval I would like to return it for a refund, given the circumstance.

    Thanks,

    John


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: "Rich Cower" <

    rcower@gmail.com>
    To: "'John Orefice'" <jorefice@hotmail.com
    >
    Subject: RE: pictures
    Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:12:44 -0700

    John,



    MO arrived today – holster went out via Priority Mail.



    Thanks…rich




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: John Orefice [mailto:

    jorefice@hotmail.com]
    Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 12:59 PM

    To: rcower@gmail.com
    Subject:
    Re: pictures



    Rich,

    Sent it last night. Here it is again, just in case.

    John Orefice

    .



    Thanks,

    John


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: "Rich Cower" <

    rcower@gmail.com>
    To: "John Orefice" <jorefice@hotmail.com
    >
    Subject: Re: pictures
    Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:20:25 -0700


    Will do. Did you send your address? I can get it boxed up and on it's way to you.

    On 9/22/06, John Orefice <

    jorefice@hotmail.com> wrote:

    Rich,

    Mailed the MO this morning. Please let me know when it arrives.

    Thank you,

    John


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: "Rich Cower" <

    rcower@gmail.com>
    To: "'John Orefice'" <


    jorefice@hotmail.com>

    Subject: RE: pictures
    Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:41:31 -0700



    John,



    I'd really rather get a Postal MO (I can cash those at the Post Office). If you can't get to the Post Office to get one of their money orders, we can use Paypal. Glad you got back to me, I was just listing it on Gunbroker. I'm in no hurry, it's not going to go anywhere. You can check my Gunbroker feedback, the username is rick_reno (don't forget the underscore).




    Send payment to



    Rich Cower













    I'll send it out the same day I get payment. Let me know your address and I'll have it all boxed up and ready to go.




    Thanks…rich




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: John Orefice [mailto:



    jorefice@hotmail.com]
    Sent:
    Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:04 PM


    To:

    rcower@gmail.com
    Subject:

    RE: pictures




    Rich,

    Looks ok to me. I'm ok with either paypal or MO. Let me know which way you want to go.

    Thanks,

    John


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: "Rich Cower" <



    rcower@gmail.com>

    To: <jorefice@hotmail.com
    >


    Subject: pictures
    Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:23:54 -0700


    The way you described it is how I ordered it…rich



    Let me know if you want it.



    ><< holster002.jpg >>

    ><< holster001.jpg >>



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  2. The Pontificator

    The Pontificator Angry Samoan

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    Are you saying you purchased what was advertised as an IWB holster and what you got was something else and when you requested a refund the seller balked?
     

  3. JohnnyO1

    JohnnyO1

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    In a nut shell, yes. He advertised a Milt Sparks Versa Max II, which is an IWB holster. What I got was a "discontinued" model NP-1, OWB holster.

    However, I initially asked for a refund based on the fact I said it would have to be Right Handed, fitting a 5" 1911 and had 1.5" belt loops. It had 1.25" belt loops. That was the initial criteria I used to request a refund. After reading his response I didn't want to fuel the fire more by telling him the holster was wrong altogether. At that point I felt I still had a chance to get my money back. He got mad saying I accused him of misrepresenting the holster and that I never told him I needed/wanted 1.5" belt loops. Yet, I had my initial PM saved proving I did.