Business and people that do not pay their bills

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by StarShip2100, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. StarShip2100

    StarShip2100 Futurist

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    I am getting pretty short on people that owe either me or my company money. They take goods or services, be it with contract or handshake, and then do not pay, slow pay, no pay, try to negotiate a lower price post deal etc.

    Once upon a time a mans word was his bond. Now, people stiff those they owe so that little Johnny can still get the newest play station.

    Sure, there are some cases where it is desperate and they had a loss of jobs or something that disrupts cash flow. Just tell me that and work with me. But when they hide, promise then don't deliver, or true to renegotiate the deal, it is a sad statement on American values.

    If someone over extends themselves, thats their problem. They should have thought about that prior to making the purchase obligation. Too many think 'ill get it now and then figure it out'.

    Much like a firefighter watching a mans home burn, these people are less then what I expect of Americans. We as a nation are better than that.

    PAY ME
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  2. Psychman

    Psychman NRA Patriot Life Member

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    AMEN to that brother. What kind of business are you in?
     

  3. Glock n Stein

    Glock n Stein Millennium Member

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    Abraham Lincoln was famous for immediately suing anyone who didn't pay him.

    When I had an IT consulting company (contracting to US Court, medical and law groups), they were all good pay.

    Extra work we took on, had us bump into a few non-pays. Never pursued them. They always seemed to call some time afterwards, frantic/ in a jam, and couldn't get anyone else to help them (probably because they've stiffed everyone). Karma. :cool:
     
  4. SouthernGal

    SouthernGal What's Up Dox?

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    This seems to be an ongoing trend in the US...people buying things they can't afford or for whatever reason, taking items/services and then simply not paying. Does nobody teach their kids that this is STEALING anymore?

    The housing market crisis, credit card crunch and other stuff...all goes back to people basically wanting something for nothing. Funny but my parents told me that nothing in this life is "free".
     
  5. StarShip2100

    StarShip2100 Futurist

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    the trend is disturbing. I do not get the mentality of people, taking goods or services and then not living up to the obligation.

    I kind of feel that the erosion of all of this started way back in business schools a couple of decades back. Used to be a contract is a contract. Now its a contract is only a contract until it is more viable to break it.

    The sad part is that these people do not care about the downstream impact of their decisions. We have family, homes, businesses, bills. What do they think? They will just take it and we write it off?

    It is a sad state. I remember doing one of the largest deals I had ever done with a handshake. No contract, 100% risk on both parties. But it was in a day when you knew the content of a mans character. Men had honor.
     
  6. Macadoo

    Macadoo

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    Non-payment/slow payment has been a hot button issue around my dental practice lately...which basically translates into the fact that my receptionist is a pushover when it comes to collecting payment.

    An example, we place a crown on a tooth for a patient and file the patient's insurance claim. Insurance will be about half of the cost, so say the patient ends up owing us $500. We send out a bill at the end of the month for the balance. We get a check back for $10 or $20. :steamed: You can't exactly go chase someone down and snatch a crown back out of their mouth when they don't pay or don't pay in a timely manner.
     
  7. rem2429

    rem2429

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    Try being in a business where you are legally and ethically obligated to take the loss anyway. That's my day in medicine. No one has health insurance in this country because no one wants to spend the playstation income on it when they get seen anyway.
     
  8. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday CLM

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    People of all ages and races have ripped me off.

    Once in a while, I'll get a customer who asks that I 'hang onto the check' for a couple of extra days, until they get paid...I usually don't have a problem working with people, when they really need some help, but I'll go all-out if they try to rip me.

    I took an 80-year old woman to court after she didn't pay the $850 she owed me.
    (I won, I recorded her promising to pay me back and played it for the judge, who immediately brought down the gavel)
     
  9. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday CLM

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    Funny you should mention dental practice...

    I repaired a refrigerator for a dentist once, and after I got done, he started to go over the bill, complaining about the cost...asking me what MY cost of parts was...I asked him what his cost was on materials for a crown and how much he actually charged patients for it.

    Stopped his questions right away.
     
  10. CitizenOfDreams

    CitizenOfDreams

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    So let me see... You expected the firefighters who did not get paid to keep doing their job. But when someone fails to pay you... all of a sudden it's completely different. Do I smell just a little bit of hypocricy here? :dunno:
     
  11. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

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    Sadly, and this is just my opinion sir....it's what we as a Country have been taught for decades is the correct way. No one need to fulfill their commitments any longer, no one need to live up to their word, no one need be concerned about their fellow man....such things are for suckers.

    The almighty "Govt" will take care of everyone, it alone will defend your rights, it alone will put one's life back together after it's been shattered by one's own misdeeds, it alone can be counted on, and it alone will support one during any bad times. Times, that one has usually brought upon themselves. If one doesn't have to be, or isn't supposed to be responsible for their own actions.....why be responsible for their own actions, eh? That seems to be the message put forth by the very folks we entrust to lead us now a days.


    Again, sadly this is what most people have come to believe is the truth of things. We few seem to be in the minority any longer. We who have been taught different, those of us who believe in doing things the right way...no matter what it may bring us. We understand our word is our bond to others, we know what the world is without personal responsibility. And unfortunately, we seem to stand alone many times. People have simply learned that they can get what they want by lying, cheating, stealing, and "promising" others something....with no intention of paying up.


    I've never seen a society so enamored with "what's in it for me", nor one so taught that it's the correct way to be. Honesty, good manners, decent morals, and simple understanding or feeling for their fellow man is just for suckers. This appears to be the National Pride we have any more. Goodness me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  12. airmotive

    airmotive Tin Kicker

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    I saw that little bit of hyprocricy in the OP as well, but I just chalked it up to picking a bad example rather than invalidating his point.

    But rather than pile on here....I'd much rather point out that in this country (and in only handful of others) 90% of the time a man's word IS his honor. Yes, it used to be 99% of the time, but the VAST majority of Americans make a good faith effort to honor their debts, promises and obligations. The fact is, every person in this country is capable of running a HUGE debt and walking away from it....enough so to cause the complete and immediate collapse of the entire economy. But nearly every single person in America either honors their obligations, makes a good faith effort to honor their obligations, or at the very least, is shamed by their inability to honor their obligations. Only a tiny few blissfully walk away from debts with a smile on their face knowing they got something without paying.

    In many places I've traveled, theft and dishonesty is the NORM.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  13. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

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    90%?

    "Nearly every single person"?


    Sorry sir, but I simply disagree. I know there isn't any way to support my belief over yours, or yours over mine.....and I suppose we'll just have to leave it that way.

    I do believe there are people in America who take great lengths to honor their word and their oblagations....I truly do. But I wouldn't place the number quite as high as you do, in fact....my experience has been just the opposite. I believe many more are dishonest, and who don't treat their word as anything except a means to acquire what they want. To be honest, I'm not sure they are the majority, but I sure suspect they aren't the minority either.

    Here's hoping you are correct and I am wrong though.
     
  14. A/C Guy

    A/C Guy

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    A guy on another forum was griping about not being able to pay his suppliers after he machined and resold their goods. I told him that was the same as stealing. He took their product, resold it, and then used the money to pay himself (paid other bills).

    It seems that in business to business dealings, people have even less integrity than they do when it comes to honoring their mortgage contracts.
     
  15. John Rambo

    John Rambo Raven

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    Preaching to the choir. I'm an IT guy...I'm still waiting on a customer to pay me for work I did for him like 3 months ago.
     
  16. johnd

    johnd

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    Yes it is an increasing bother.
    One of my businesses takes ( used to take) equity or Intellectual Property in lieu of payment if I thought that company was worth anything. Unfortunately that made the company show a series of losses that triggered the IRS who then said " its not a business as its not in the business to make money"....duh.
    So they penalised it ( me ) going back years to even when it made money and sent me a bill.
    When I argued that the equity and the 3 patents I now own is worth something they agreed but said that I paid no taxes on that equity /IP.
    When I countered with "you will want taxes from me when I monetise those items" they agreed to which I continued " so where do you allow me my expenses in acquiring those "assets"?" and they looked like the deer in the headlights and suggested I sue them to overturn their calculation....just waiting for a court date. :supergrin:
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  17. StarShip2100

    StarShip2100 Futurist

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    No, not at all. I agree the firefighters should get paid. The point is thatthe same moral decay that lets them stand there and watch something burn is the same that allows people to knowingly take goods they wont pay for.
     
  18. CitizenOfDreams

    CitizenOfDreams

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    Had the man been trapped inside his burning house, I am sure those same firefighters would risk their lives to save him. But I don't think it's "moral decay" or "unamerican" to let a deadbeat customer suffer a monetary loss for his actions. It's more of a poetic justice.
     
  19. void *

    void * Dereference Me!

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    When I first walked into my current dentist's office, they gave me a nice sheet of paper explaining how everything worked in that office. They basically bill 'right now', and that was all laid out up front, before I ever sat in the chair. I had some fillings done the other day, I paid the non-insurance portion before I walked out the door.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  20. SouthernGal

    SouthernGal What's Up Dox?

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    I find it dishonest and shameful.