Buildings in National Parks

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Jim, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. Jim

    Jim

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    I'm doing this from memory, so don't flame me if I got it wrong...

    Now that carry in National Parks is legal, the common understanding is that carry in the buildings normally used by Park Service personnel is still prohibited because of a pre-existing federal policy or law. The wording was once quoted as prohibiting carry in federal buildings "...except for hunting or other lawful purposes." Or something like that.

    If the quote is accurate (I'm sure someone can find the federal reg), lawful self defense has always been a lawful purpose. Perhaps there is previous case law to the contrary, but Congress has now passed a law specifically intended to make self defense in National Parks a lawful purpose.

    Time for our legal eagles to chime in here...

    BTW, I don't intend to be a test case and don't recommend it to anyone else. Far better to get this clarified in advance.
     
  2. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    This might be a good source. :)

    http://home.nps.gov/news/release.htm?id=962


    New Firearms Law Takes Effect Monday - National parks now subject to state and local firearms laws



    WASHINGTON – A change in federal law effective Monday, February 22, allows firearms in many national parks. People who can legally possess firearms under federal and state law can now possess those firearms in the national parks in that state. The new law (Sec. 512 of P.L. 111-24) was passed by Congress and signed last May by the President.
    Prior to February 22, firearms have generally been prohibited in national parks – except in some Alaska parks and those parks that allow hunting.
    State and local firearms laws vary. Visitors who would like to bring a firearm with them to a national park need to understand and comply with the applicable laws. More than 30 national parks are located in more than one state, so visitors need to know where they are in those parks and which state’s law applies.
    “For nearly 100 years, the mission of the National Park Service has been to protect and preserve the parks and to help all visitors enjoy them,” National Park Service Director Jon Jarvis said. “We will administer this law as we do all others – fairly and consistently.”
    Federal law continues to prohibit the possession of firearms in designated “federal facilities” in national parks, for example, visitor centers, offices, or maintenance buildings. These places are posted with “firearms prohibited” signs at public entrances. The new law also does not change prohibitions on the use of firearms in national parks and does not change hunting regulations.
    Park websites have been updated to include links to state firearms laws to help visitors understand the law and plan accordingly. Sec. 512 of P.L. 111-24, an amendment to the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure Act of 2009, also directs the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to follow state and local firearms laws in national wildlife refuges.
     

  3. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000930----000-.html

    This is the federal law they are claiming.

    § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

    How Current is This?

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    (e) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
    (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

    (f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
    (g) As used in this section: (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
    (2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
    (3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.


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  4. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    Based on D(3) above it could be interesting.
     
  5. Jim

    Jim

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    Thanks, that's exactly my point.
    I don't want to be a test case and neither should anyone else.
    It would make an interesting civil case if one of the Second Ammendment organizations wanted to do the work.
     
  6. flagg

    flagg

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    keep it hid.
     
  7. Jim

    Jim

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    Anything new?
    I'm still waiting for a challenge to the ban on parks buildings, on the basis that concealed carry is an "...other lawful purpose."

    See section D 3 in post #3
     
  8. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out CLM

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    The first person busted for that and only that will become the test case. All the cases I've read about in buildings are an add on to drugs or robbery charges.

    The one that was decided (can't remember the case name) where the single charge was a firearm in a federal facility was overturned saying that a parking lot of a Post Office is not a federal facility.

    It's going to be an interesting 10 years or so, that's for sure.