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Buffalo bore 9mm +p+ 147

  1. Was able to find a couple of boxes of this ammo & was wondering if anyone has had experience with it. Would be using it in a Glock 17 & wanted to know if it was safe. Thanks in advance.

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  2. I'm pretty sure Iraqveteran8888 tested it in a G19 or G43.
  3. From Glock's website, FAQs page:

    Link: https://us.glock.com/en/faqs

    What kind of ammunition should I use in my GLOCK pistol? Can I use +P and +P+ ammunition?

    We recommend using ammunition that is manufactured and meets SAAMI or other industry standards, and while some +P ammunition meets these guidelines, +P+ usually does not. This ammunition may generate a higher pressure than standard ammunition, which could shorten the life of the parts of your firearm.
  4. Have fired +P+ in the Glock 9mil models for years. No issues. I hand load to very hot levels, "sometimes" not always. I don't carry +P+, but have NO problem with them in the Glock 9mm models. I really don't see the 'need' for the +P+ in a SD carry load, so IF I carry a 9mm, It is standard pressure usually, sometimes +P.

  5. I thought I read somewhere that Glocks can even fire 9mm NATO safely which I thought was loaded hotter than 9mm +P. I probably wouldn't recommend doing it all the time, but I don't think it's going to blow the gun up.
  6. (double post)
  7. You will harm your wallet much quicker than you will harm your Glock. The only +P+ round that I have shot very much of is the Federal 115 +P+ round. My Glocks never missed a beat with them and show no signs of unusual wear. You used to find this round online for a nice price.
  8. You'll likely be okay with this ammo, but instead of trying to wring every last "oomph" out of 9mm I think a better route would be to step up to .357sig/.40S&W/.45ACP, calibers that hurl a heavier round with a lot more authority.

    For purely self-defense purposes I understand 147-grain standard pressure JHP has a good track record in Gold Dot, HST, or Golden Saber.
  9. Thanks for all the imput. With ammo being so scarce, When I found some 9mm, didn’t want to miss out on it.

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  10. I have run some side by side test on both Winchester white box, 9mm, 124g fmj, USA and NATO rounds.
    NATO - Box listed at 1,140 fps
    USA - Box listed at 1,140 fps
    I thought it was curious that both boxes, listed their test velocities at the same rate? Yet my tests showed a definite difference. Winchester claims that "NATO rounds are loaded 10% above standard loads".
    Test gun was a G17 w/4.49" barrel (6 shot average)
    Winchester USA = 1,039.16 fps
    Winchester NATO = 1,136.83 fps

    On the side of a Winchester white box - 9mm NATO 124g fmj - it states "This 9mm ammunition is loaded to the same specifications currently used by our U.S. Military. The higher pressure in these rounds, deliver increased velocity and energy over standard 9mm ammunition, which also promotes reliable cycling in modern 9mm semi-auto handguns as well as carbines."

    Winchester claims that their "+P" loads run at 1,180 fps. So even though the NATO loads do run faster than their "USA" brand, they do not come up to Winchester own +P standard.

    So, what does this mean? Your G17 will and can run NATO loads all day long if you want.
  11. Now Buffalo Bore is the real deal, they are a very STOUT loads right off the shelf. You can shoot them out of your G17 - it’s a tough gun, it will take it. But not a steady diet of 147g +P+. Several boxes yes but I would leave it at that. I think your wrists will give out before your Glock does.
  12. I think that’s a little silly.
    The +P+ 9mm is still under velocity of a standard 357 Sig and a G17 and G31 are basically the same gun except for barrel (and obviously breech face and small parts).

    A Gen 3/4 G31 is pretty easy to shoot.
  13. Well the final decision is up to Kevin Moon and since he already has several boxes of this ammo - of course he should use them. As I said before you can shoot this ammo out of his G17, it’s just rough on the wrist.

    I have done many tests with tons of different kinds/brands of ammo in the past 20+ years and have used Buffalo Bore ammo in at least 4-5 different calibers. I would not recommend a steady diet of running this ammo - for more reasons than being a stout cartridge.

    Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore ammunition commented about their 45 Colt cartridges:
    "We knew that we could develop a couple standard pressure 45 Colt loads that would feature a 255g Gas Checked soft cast bullet at around 1,000 fps or a 200g Jacketed Hollow Point at around 1,100fps. We wanted loads that were substantially more powerful than today's weenie loads, but that could be fired in ANY 45-colt firearm."

    His philosophy carries through for all of his ammunition they development, so yes you can most definitely use this ammo in your Glock... but I just want people to know what kind of ammo they are using.
  14. FWIW, I would not have the slightest hesitation in using that ammo in a G17, or any other of my 9MMs. I have used a fair amount of 9MM +P, +P+, NATO and equivalent reloads over the past many years, in a variety of firearms to include Glocks, without anything bending, breaking, crumbling, or blowing up...

  15. NATO spec is 36500psi
    SAAMI spec is 35000psi
    SAAMI +P is 38500psi

    So it seems NATO is between std and +P.

    FYI - ZQi claims 1214fps @ 16m with 124gr for their NAT rounds - which will is bit closer to +P.
  16. Hickok45 was doing a test on a Glock, which one I'm not sure. Seems like maybe a 43? He mentioned that Buffalo Bore was the only one that didn't feed reliably.
  17. Appears to be similar to the Underwood 147 +P+ using a Gold Dot @ 1175 fps. Looking at the photos on BB's site these also seem to be Gold Dots.....could the OP confirm? If so, this velocity could produce up to .80 expansion, but at the sacrifice of penetration. The bonding process will prevent it from fragmenting. It should reach 12" in a soft target due to high weight retention, but a std pressure 147 Gold Dot with 17% less momentum (and lower recoil) might reach 15" with .60 expansion.

    I'm very fascinated by hotter than normal 147's but feel that 1050-1125 fps is sufficient to increase momentum while not stressing the projectile; Gold Dot, XTP, etc. that are driven to those velocities. A 147 Gold Dot at 1050-1075 would be the ticket, IMO, and likely achieve that velocity without pushing +P+ pressures.

    It probably won't hurt your Glock. Recoil is subjective to the shooter. If you own 357 SIG, the 147 XTP at their factory velocities is a better penetrator in soft tissue (due to bullet design/tolerance) by 3-6" compared to what this hot Gold Dot will offer.

    As for $ per round, for self defense I would rather have a mag with $20 in ammo loaded in my G17 as opposed to throwing my empty $500 Glock at someone.
  18. I have noticed that the big major ammo companies' .357sig bullets are designed for that specific caliber while some boutique ammo companies load a 9mm bullet into their .357sig rounds. Best to have a full mag of the right bullet whatever the cost, in my way of thinking.

    Your ammo tests are the bomb, you know. We hope you resume them in the near future.