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Bring back Majorsub to GSSF

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by 129, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. 129

    129

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    A thread on GT's Bull Dawgs forum inspired me to write this. I searched but couldn't find anything similar. Maybe the Majorsub owners are few and far between but here it goes.

    This year GSSF changed the Majorsub catagory to Heavymetal. I can see why they would add this catagory. Since 9mm is very popular (and should be) they needed something for the big calibers. But I kind of liked the Major sub catagory too. All things being equal a fullsize will outshoot a subcompact. It seems like they kind of eliminated the 29, 30, and 39 from all the catagories. In the subcompact catagory the smaller catagories have the advantage, in the heavymetal the full size frames have the advantage.

    There just seems that there is an ideal gun for every catagory but with the removal of Majorsub the 29, 30, and 39 do not have their ideal division.

    Keep in mind I know opinions on what the ideal guns is wil vary. I am also aware that many will be able to shoot a big gun (mening a large frame OR large caliber) better than a small gun. I would venture most of the general shooting population does better with smaller calibers.

    So I don't know why GSSF couldn't add Heavymetal as another catagory and still retain Majorsub. The more the better. I know the entries weren't the best but then again there were not as many awards given out in the catagory either.

    Opinions/explainations are welcome but I encourage all to write/email/etc. to GSSF asking nicely to bring Majorsub back. They kind of hinted they would see how it went and could bring it back if there was enough interest.
     
  2. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    I respectfully disagree that a G20, G21 or G37 will out-shoot a G29/G30/G36/G38/G39 in GSSF competition.

    Grady Whitelaw recently won Matchmeister with a subcompact Glock. Tony Clemens has also done it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011

  3. SARDG

    SARDG

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    Perhaps I just am not a good enough shooter to eek out everything available on the G21 (like longer sight radius than the 30), but I get the same or better results with my G30.

    Some have theorized that the dual RSA has something to do with it. Haven't seen the G4 G21s but presumably they have the dual spring.
     
  4. triggerjerker

    triggerjerker

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    Grady Whitelaw recently won Matchmeister with a subcompact Glock. Tony Clemens has also done it.[/QUOTE]

    Mike Ross and Bryan Dover has also done it.
     
  5. ede

    ede Bama's Friend

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    i have the choice of quite a few guns to shoot and i'm sticking with a g30 and don't feel like i'm at a disadvantage.
     
  6. gary newport

    gary newport

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    My suggestion: bring back MajorSub AND transform Heavy Metal into a 10+1 division! :cool:
     
  7. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    And then what, a special category for 40's, and then 357's? You can already shoot G21's in Am/Civ, Guardian, Competition, Master Stock and Unlimited. I can see it now:

    Am/Civ 9mm
    Am/Civ 10mm
    Am/Civ 40
    Am/Civ 357
    Am/Civ 45

    Heavy Metal is fine just the way it is. As Major Subcompact only, the category was experiencing a slow, painful death.
     
  8. VOLGRAD

    VOLGRAD

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    I also have noticed participation seems to be lagging in the regular Sub division. I've often wondered why it keeps going.
     
  9. jdwatson

    jdwatson

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    I'm waiting for the G4 G30 to join in on the .45 fun. I've been careful to not try out other guns just to avoid the lust factor. One is enough, right ? ;-) In retrospect, I wish I had the opportunity to try out the whole Glock line-up before making a decision what to purchase for EDC & recreation.

    I'd hate for GSSF to become caliber-centric. I thought they made a good decision to bring the HeavyMetal division to the sport that is somewhat dominated (in number) by 9mm. In reading the Glock Report on page 35, the MajorSub was created to find a home for the G36. I like their reasoning for the changes.
     
  10. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

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    heavy metal has been good to me :O)
     
  11. gary newport

    gary newport

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    No "slippery slope" is necessary! Why was MajorSub created in the first place? Specifically to provide a place for ONE Glock model, the G36 to play--while accomodating downloaded G29 and G30 pistols and, eventually, the G39.

    Of course, one can shoot the Heavy-Metal Glocks in A-C, etc., but how many do?

    Okay, here's an alternative proposal: make Heavy Metal a 10+1 division and forget about MajorSub altogether. This would make Heavy Metal entirely consistent with the other GSSF divisions and would accommodate all 10mm, .45 GAP and .45 ACP models with suitable magazines, except the G36, for which no 10-round Glock magazines are available. This is no more "caliber-specific" than the existing Heavy Metal or the old MajorSub divisions were, but includes more Glock models than MajorSub and allows for consistency in all divisions.

    Perhaps part of the reason that MajorSub "was experiencing a slow, painful death" is that a lot of folks didn't relish the notion of facing a plate rack with only 7 rounds! :whistling:
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  12. Norske

    Norske Millennium Member

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    If enough additional interest in Heavy Metal is exhibited this GSSF match season, that is the game plan for the 2012-13 season.

    GSSF does not make money for Glock. It is an advertising and public relations activity and like all such activities it is an expense item, not a revenue item.

    To spend more money on it, some justification has to be shown to management as to why the change should be made.

    Prizes are a wash -- entry fees pretty much pay for the prizes, so that is a wash no matter the level of entries.

    The really expensive item is changing GSSF's scoring and admin database to handle an entirely new division.

    When GSSF went away from the old "Lewis" based scoring and prize system to the present entry-based system, they had to pay their outside programmers $10 Grand to make the change.

    To add an entirely new, 10+1 Division "Heavy Metal 2" division might take a similar expenditure.

    The current change from MajorSub to Heavy Metal only entailed listing four more models to the allowed list -- something that can be done internally without recourse to outside programmers -- and changing the name.

    It could be done cheaply, with little fuss. And GSSF could gather some data about it.

    As this match season winds down, GSSF will hopefully have enough data that it produced enough additional match entries to take to Glock management. To argue the case that for next year the traditional MajorSub should be reinstated and HeavyMetal become an entirely stand-alone, 10+1, eighth GSSF Division.

    Which, by the way, would just like Competition, Subcompact, and the current HeavyMetal, would have both Amateur and Master Sub-Divisions and would be eligible for the "MatchMeister" award. Something that Heavy Metal now is not.

    :supergrin:

    At this time, Heavy Metal is showing an average increase of 7 additional entries per match over MajorSub. Or roughly 280 entries over an entire 40 match schedule. Times $25 per entry, a $7,000 increase in gross revenue.
    Will that be enough to convince Glock management to make the additional expenditure?

    Time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  13. MajorD

    MajorD

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    I think they did good making major sub heavy metal- I do not currently compete in this category, but see the logic (as the gssf magazine stated) they kept the 7 round limit to still allow the glock 36 and becasue if the match took only 50 rounds instead of 100 with ammo costs in the larger calibers higher (especially 10mm) itwould encourage more people to participate. sure makes sense to me.Those that wish to shoot a large caliber in the other categories still can. I do not beleive with the size and range of targets involved that you are at any significant disadvantage with the subcompacts vs the full size guns.
     
  14. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

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    also you don't need to carry as much of the heavier ammo.
     
  15. mike g35

    mike g35

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    I am new to GSSF having just shot my first match.The Subdivision appeals to me but I am planning to just keep shooting CivAm, Comp., and UL for now. Most people shoot the glock they already own in GSSF and the sub's just don't sell as much. Therefore there are less entries in that division. Most shooters won't buy a new gun to shoot only one division. I buy a glock about every month but when it comes to the Sub. and the Heavy Metal divisions I want one gun to shoot them both. Just my observation.
     
  16. Carolina Mike

    Carolina Mike

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    I have owned and loved my G21 for many years. Last year, I used one of my prize certificates to get a 30sf specifically to shoot MajSub because it looked like a fun challenge. It is a fantastic little gun and just as accurate as my 21. I don't feel disadvantaged shooting against the full size guns in a 7 round match. I have stayed with it even after the change to Hvy Mtl. It worked well for me in Beckley this past weekend.

    Having enough Master shooters to win a gun in Maj Sub was always a problem, so by opening it up to guys with the big guns it can only help our odds. I don't think that separating the two would be a plus for us who like the 6+1 division. Whatever the decision, I'll probably be shooting it either way but that's just my take on the issue.
     
  17. Norske

    Norske Millennium Member

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    I think it will only go one of two ways.

    1 - If there are not enough entries to justify making HM a separate, 10+1 division, it will stay the way it is now.

    2 - Make HM a separate 10+1 Division and return MajorSub to it's previous, limited to G-29, 30, 36, 39, status.

    I can't see them -

    3 - returning MajorSub to the way it was and dropping HM entirely.

    I hope it will be - 2. But only time, the numbers, and Glock Management will tell.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  18. ede

    ede Bama's Friend

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    i sure hope we see a 10+1 HM division AND a 6+1 MSub division.
     
  19. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 13 Air Medals.

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    I think there would be better participation with #2. I think a lot of people just do not like the 7 shots, especially on the plates.
     
  20. BamaTrooper

    BamaTrooper Retired

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    Well, either enjoy that for fun or get to practicing because shooting unlimited is like shooting master stock; everyone shoots head to head. In subcompact, there is the am-master divide and multiple prize trees.

    30 or 29 in standard or SF versions.