Bolt Action Technique Question....

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by MacG22, Feb 13, 2010.

  1. MacG22

    MacG22 CLM

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    So... After going through a magpul course a while back, I made some changes in how I shot my rifle (AR15).

    Primarily, I stopped "blading" the stock against my shoulder and got the shoulders even, brought the butt in a bit and wrapped my shoulders in a little. This also gets me "behind" the sights.


    It did amazing things for my AR accuracy. But a lot of that position deals with absorbing recoil for multiple shots.


    So now I've been playing around with my bolt action (small bore in this case, but that's not as important), and I wanted to know if that shooting position is best applied to bolt action, distance shots as well. Specifically, I'm distance shooting for prairie dogs, coyotes, etc.

    Is the the best technique for bolt action, distance shots?
     
  2. moeman

    moeman

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    I'd start w/ a harris bipod or a monopod (shooting stick) for the long ranged stuff.
     

  3. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    I have no idea of what "blading" the stock to the shoulder means.
     
  4. MacG22

    MacG22 CLM

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    It's just when you cram the stock into the outside blade of the shoulder and pull your other shoulder up around close to the muzzle side, instead of staying behind the gun.

    This would be an example of that technique, if he was standing up (harder to impossible to do when in this position, depending on conditions)

    [​IMG]


    Here's an example of getting behind it:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

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    See if you can find out what the Marine Corps teaches. I doubt you'll be able to, but who knows...my guess would be that the same principal would work for bolt action as the AR. We shoot/qual at 500 yards and use a technique that puts the stock high in the shoulder, and you basically extend your arm straight out and then wrap it around. It's hard to explain. :thud: How far are you going to be shooting?

    -Cody
     
  6. MacG22

    MacG22 CLM

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    Really at about 100 yards. But I want to toy with getting into 400+ with bigger bore but want to begin with a foundation of solid technique.
     
  7. 82ndVet

    82ndVet

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    I'm assuming you are standing...? In which case you would be correct, squaring up your shoulders more, bringing the recoil pad in to sit more on the outer edge of your pectoralis muscle, bending slightly at the knees in the shooter's stance. Seated with shooting bags, rests, or prone with a bi-pod, ect, it won't matter so much whether you are squared up, or the position of the pad to your body...*as long as the other fundamentals are in place.

    :patriot:
     
  8. Whiskey Six

    Whiskey Six Marine 0369 Platinum Member

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    Marine Corps 200 yard line off hand (standing). Feet perpendicular to the target shoulder width apart. (I guess this is "bladed") Front elbow tucked in tight. Tricep across ribs. Front hip slightly kicked toward target. Target shooting.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Shooting squared up to the target is great for closer in targets. Fast, multiple targets. CQB, etc. Tacticool!
    [​IMG]
     
  9. farley45

    farley45

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    I think it may not be the same for bolt action, compared to an auto loader, because you have to work the bolt. Square up and work the bolt, and see how quick you can do it and if it feels awkward. It feels awkward to me anyways. The heavier weight and recoil may come into effect as well.

    Longer distance shoots at prairie dogs, or song dogs, is much easier to do laid out on the ground with a nice bipod. Generally it is difficult to get close to these animals, so longer shots are required.
     
  10. MacG22

    MacG22 CLM

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    This is really helpful, thanks. Especially the first pic. So it would appear that offhand at distance is very different, and you don't want to be behind the gun.

    I know that with a pipod you want to be behind it, but it didn't seem as stable to me offhand.

    Interesting, thanks.
     
  11. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    I see that now. It looks like they can't put in a proper shoulder position because of the tactical vest/LBE so they have to put the stock to the outter part of the shoulder. That will work with a round like the .223 or the like. That ain't gonna cut it with a larger caliber. It's gonna hurt.

    Anyway, in a non-tactical environment (i.e. not dressed up like a mall ninja), take the buttstock and put it on your pectoral muscle, pull it in tight and raise the shooting arm up to be parallel to the ground. This action helps form a pocket at the shoulder and keeps the buttstock from slipping away.

    Look at the Gyrine with the M16A2. Your supporting arm doesn't have to be the same as his though, but it should be as close to the body as possible and close to the center of gravity of the rifle.

    As far as for long distance shots, go down to your knees and use your knee (s) for support ala the rice paddy squat position where you squat down on both legs with both of your knees up and your elbows on your knees. Or the kneel position where the non-shooting arm is on the non-shooting knee and the shooting knee is on the ground.

    Better yet, go prone but if there are a lot of grass then going prone will defeat the purpose since that you won't see squat.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2010
  12. PMY

    PMY

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    I've done a good amount of highpower shooting, and I've never seen anyone with their support hand like the guy in uniform in the first picture. Usually its more under the rifle, like in the second and third pictures.

    This guy must have gotten tired of chasing his brass and figured out a way to keep it from getting away from him. (You only load one round at a time when shooting standing, so jamming the rifle by covering the ejection port wouldn't be an issue.)

    As for the original question, if you can do it comfortably, I don't see any reason why you couldn't shoot a bolt rifle squared up. But it might be harder without an AR-style pistol grip on the stock. Ergonomically, it might be a little tougher.
     
  13. Batesmotel

    Batesmotel

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    The thumb basically becomes a hook and the M16 rests on the hand guard retaining ring. Great position to shoot the M16 offhand. It keeps the upper body tight and compact allowing a great amount of bone support.
     
  14. MrMurphy

    MrMurphy ********* Moderator Lifetime Member Millennium Member

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    Get yourself a copy of Jeff Cooper's Art of the Rifle. Basic primer on rifle shooting. The standard rifle positions shown, while not as effective for fighting with an AR platform rifle, are the basic field positions for using a bolt action or other rifle (levergun, Garand, etc). They're not perfect for everything, but the various positions (classic kneeling, sitting, offhand, prone, etc) are optimized for boltguns.
     
  15. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    The squared up stance only work well with guns that don't have a lot of arm reach like the Mattel Toy with a chopped barrel, vertical foregrip and collapsed or partially collapsed buttstock. Or a submachine gun.

    You can't stand squared up with a long rifle, not unless you're 6ft6 basketball player with arms like orangutan.

    On a side note, pistoleers have gone much away from the Isoceles position and much favored the Weaver-type stance, yet carbine shooters are squared up which is pretty much a modified Isoceles stance.

    I personally don't give a rat's hind end which stance you use. Use whichever you can shoot well with and be the giver instead of recipient.