Better ARs than Colts?

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by Detectorist, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty Wolverine

    Messages:
    6,423
    Likes Received:
    11,070
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Sure but I get his point. Colt essentially took a prototype and mass produced it into a weapon of war.
     
    Detectorist likes this.
  2. O4L

    O4L

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2019
    Yes and many forget that bit of truth.
     
    rock_castle likes this.

  3. notorious_kfc

    notorious_kfc

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    53
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    I don’t know of an AR15 made to try to mimic a rifle made to military specifications that sells for less than pre-end of Colt Colts. But you can still get an LMT, Bravo Company or FN.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    902
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    It is not true. Colt bought the rights, patent, and most importantly, the TDP. It is the original with Colt's name stamped on it instead of Armalite.
     
  5. hardluk1

    hardluk1

    Messages:
    1,481
    Likes Received:
    807
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Location:
    NC mountains
    BUt still colt did not design the AR or made the first models . I never looked at colt AR's are being better than many others versions and sure not as good as more than a few . Once patent coverage was over so was colts claim to anything and others start to take away large shares even government contract weapons . Its been a looong time since colts designed anything successful .
     
  6. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    56,973
    Likes Received:
    42,326
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I've owned about 3 Colts. I'd be interested in anybody pointing out what makes a Colt any better than a PSA, other than the name-brand market value.
     
    rock_castle, Quijibo and Quigley like this.
  7. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    56,973
    Likes Received:
    42,326
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    Kentucky
    So what about the Colt makes it better?

    All I see in this thread is people naming brands that are popular on the internet - if somebody can't say why they are better, I have to assume "read it on the internet" is all you've got.
     
    Quijibo likes this.
  8. notorious_kfc

    notorious_kfc

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    53
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    There are different lines sold by PSA. But anyway Colt has requirements for materials and quality control testing that lead to more reliable hard use rifles. Colt also has access to military requirements that most other manufacturers don’t have. Companies like Bravo Company have basically tried to clone Colt.

    Pat Roger’s death was not only the loss of a great guy, but the loss of decades of knowledge about what works and didn’t work with AR15s. Now we have a race to the bottom price wise with the major manufacturers looking to churn out the cheapest AR possible with no chrome lining, cheaper steel, indifferent material testing.

    Oh well, maybe it’ll aid 2nd amendment advocacy by having more rifles on the market


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    agtman likes this.
  9. Detectorist

    Detectorist

    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    14,411
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Location:
    Missouri
    Battle proven?
     
  10. Blackshirt

    Blackshirt

    Messages:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Location:
    Waldheim, LA
    When I was first in the security business, we used Colt M16A1s. When it came time to replace them with A2s, Colt's factory couldn't deliver when they said they could. We bought Windham Bushmasters, instead. These rifles met the MILSPEC as well or better than the Colts and they were delivered early. Bushmaster broke away from Windham and has slipped into mediocrity. However, Windham is still making really excellent rifles for decent prices. See the link below. Shop around and you can find these for about $800.

    https://www.windhamweaponry.com/firearms/rifles/223-556-caliber-rifle/hbc/
     
    gatorboy, rock_castle and Whittsailor like this.
  11. OttoLoader

    OttoLoader

    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    1,417
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Location:
    North Carolina
    2912:

    Del Ton 20" 5.56 NATO flat top with A2 stock.
    S&W M&P receiver
    Troy rear flip up aperture sight.
    Giselle two stage trigger.
    $650 total

    Not interested in any Colt.
     
  12. venenoindy

    venenoindy

    Messages:
    1,415
    Likes Received:
    107
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    I just purchased a brand new LWRC DI for $999.00 shipped.
     
  13. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    902
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    The first sentence (which I highlighted) alone starts the arguments. How far do you want to whittle it down to win the Internet? Armalite is an entity. Eugene Stoner is a person. Stoner made what we now know as this rifle pattern. Colt's (also an entity) bought everything from Armalite after Armalite discovered they couldn't sell weapons well. The evolution of this pattern is all Colt's. Colt's didn't design the 1911 either.

    "Other versions" may be deemed better, which is highly subjective, but Colt's still owns the TDP, which is the original, battle proven design. When the patent expired (which all patents do) every Tom, Dick, and Harry started making clones to capitalize on the lucrative design, which is what Americans do. They are all copies and free from the chains of the TDP that restrain Colt's. These clones can use sub-standard parts, no batch testing, etc. And let's not forget the "superior" mid-length which allows free float hand guards to extend out to the muzzle so the user can hang lights, cameras, and water coolers off the barrel while plinking tin cans.

    The patent expiring had nothing to do with other manufactures getting their foot in the door to government contracts. SOPMOD and the TDP did. Colt's, by contract, has to make the weapons to the TDP, other manufacturers do not.


    "Unfortunately, fighting the Army for improvements is no easy task. Colt CEO William Keys, who is also a retired USMC General, explained out to Army Times that Colt has to build what the US Army asks for, to the Army’s exact specifications:

    “If we have a change that we think would help the gun, we go to the Army… which is not an easy process, by the way. We spent 20 years trying to get [an extractor] spring changed. They just said ‘well, this works good enough.’ “

    SOPMOD is used to circumvent governmental red tape. Think LMT's enhanced BCG, reflex sights, piston guns, and the appropriately named SOPMOD barrels. This was done to provide elite units with specialized weapons better suited to their specific needs. Doesn't make the better. The average dog face and grunt still get GI Colt and FN, which are Colt's made by FN to the TDP with their name on it. No different than a RIA, Singer, or Sears 1911.
     
    Blackshirt and Chief Illiniwek like this.
  14. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    12,841
    Likes Received:
    6,304
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Location:
    Louisville KY
    The answer to the original question is obvious and moot. ANYONE makes a better AR than Colt because Colt doesn't make them for civilians any more. Duh!
     
    hardluk1 and venenoindy like this.
  15. hardluk1

    hardluk1

    Messages:
    1,481
    Likes Received:
    807
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Location:
    NC mountains
    George Wow what a rant , I feel sorry for you to have to type that out just to waist on me . Hahahehehe . Maybe you can go ahead and try to ed-u-ma-cate some one that gives a darn . But I sure don't care !!

    After all if the government stop giving contracts to colt like this years or getting others to share the contracts like FN has had to do in the past colt would have gone belly long ago as they proven over the years they can't survive with out government aid .
     
  16. OttoLoader

    OttoLoader

    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    1,417
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Even before that, I chose a Del Ton 20 " kit with a S&W receiver geissele two stage trigger and Troy flip up aperture sight for $650 in to it in 2012. Works flawlessly.

    Looking to Colt competition I chose others.

    Since late 1970s

    S&W DA revolver

    SA 1911 A1

    Even Ruger SA.

    I just never bought a Colt.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  17. George Kaplan

    George Kaplan emeritus

    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    902
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Hardly a rant and it took no time at all for me to type. Pompous of you to think my post was for you. I never once directed one word towards you. As outlined, I used one sentence of your ill informed opinion to highlight an example on a public forum. So no time "waisted" [sic]. LOL.

    If you enjoy living your life un-"ed-u-ma-cate"d, not giving a darn, not caring, and ignorant on a particular subject, that's your life, not mine. Irony of it all is that with your attitude, you will find yourself on government assistance if you're not already. LOL.
     
  18. GlockFan7

    GlockFan7

    Messages:
    5,478
    Likes Received:
    3,434
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Colt has traditionally been somewhat suicidal. They're so choosy about who can sell their products. Davis guns (Gallery of Guns) can't even ship Colts to my area. The closest FFL they'll ship to is over an hour away.
     
  19. FAS1

    FAS1

    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    890
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    Gunsnguitars and George Kaplan like this.
  20. Blackshirt

    Blackshirt

    Messages:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Location:
    Waldheim, LA
    Colt meets the MILSPEC, as do a number of other makers. I don't think that makes any of them better, unless it is customized for a specific purpose. However, Colt has a terrible business model. They regularly hold themselves back from success, but their rifles do meet a standard...

    If you're looking for something special, check out Knights or LaRue Tactical ARs. These are special rifles (and their price reflects this).