[happie2shoot]

Before everyone jumps down my throat yes it is legal in Virginia. In Virginia the requirements are that it is greater than 23caliber and more than 350ftlbs of energy.

Secondly we are talking small deer < 100lbs. I have been practicing for this for a very long time. My maximum range will be 25yards as that is the farthest distance that I can consistently keep all my rounds within a 6" circle. I will be hunting with a shotgun but if the deer gets close enough and presents a perfect broad side shot then I do plan on taking the shot.

If a hollow point then it needs to penetrate farther than most hollow points as deer are tougher than we are. For that reason I've settled on the Hornady American Gunner 124gr +P. Based on the tests I've seen these tend to penetrate to around 18" of ballistics gel.

Another round could be the Underwood 115hr +P Extreme Penetrator. I'm not sure if these rounds are all hype but the thought behind this round is that it would break any bone that it comes into contact with and would allow for a clean pass through insuring more rapid blood loss.

Lastly I'm considering just going with a Standard 124gr NATO spec round. This round should also allow for a pass through and should also Yaw creating a more devastating wound channel than the Extreme Penetrator.

I've texted all 3 of these rounds and I'm the most accurate with the Hornady load and closely followed by the NATO spec load. The least accurate for me is the Underwood but even it keeps all shots within the required 6" circle at 25 yards.

PS. Based on everything I can find there is no requirement to have an expanding round for hunting in VA like there is in some states.

Thanks in advance.
~Quigley

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

For you that think a 357 is only marginal for
deer, you have no or the wrong experience
with it, I know better. The 357 with the right
boolit will blow through a six hundred lb elk.

I personally would shoot a 100 lb deer with
the right 9mm projectile but I am a above
average shot and have shot deer with many
different calibers. Rams at 220 yards with
a 7.5'' SBH, standing, no rest, and some
cast boolits was easy.

If you are going to do this please tell us
what kind of 9mm, barrel length, do you
reload, when are you going? you will need
some time to do some test, shooting.

One of the deer I shot with a 340gr rf boolit
going 1485 fps, shot was around 85 yards, it
almost split the heart in half, deer still went
25 yards and was still alive when I got to it,
is the 454 Casull marginal for deer?

Have done and seen similar shots done by
others with the 30-06, 12ga slugs and other
calibers, also seen deer, elk shot with 22 cf
and killed fast.

When you shoot an animal or person you
don't know what will exactly happen, some
times they can keep going, sometimes not,
even shot through the heart. chit happens

When my boy went through hunters safety
in Idaho, they said a double lung shot was
the best and safest shot, not the quickest.

The quickest is the CNS, from the shoulders
to the head, even weak calibers can work
with that kind of shot.

I am about to start a trip and hope I have
time and can help you with this, for now
you need to shoot more, get your groups
down to around four inches at the range
you will shoot the deer.

The 357 would be better, also with some
powders it can be quieter, get some electronic
ear muffs that let you hear.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ele...X&ved=0ahUKEwjuyaSrvKneAhU7FzQIHTE2D6EQsxgIKw

Some probably can't learn form this, some will,

http://www.mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=155&p=388&hilit=elk+shot+with+a+357#p388

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPBKt3fFCw


http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/357_magnum_and_the_literature.htm

===============================
More on the 357,

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8521043/m/9581007881/p/1

''Larger and/or more powerful cartridges and light weight handguns have to face the unfortunate issue of heavier recoil; which reduces the chance of a quick recovery and any quick additional chance for hits, in case you happen to miss your first shot due to being under a bit of stress.

ONLY HITS COUNT AND YOU CAN NOT USE A BIG ENOUGH GUN, OR SHOOT FAST ENOUGH, TO OVERCOME THAT !
a direct hit from a .357 beats a close miss from a 454 Casull or 475 Linebaugh.

In fact I carried a 357 with 180 gr Norma FMJ bullets for over a decade until I gave it to my daughter, and I still pack one on many days. i know from experience that they will shoot all the way through the skull of a big bear.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com''

 

[ss30378]

No.

Where I the world do people get the idea that anything under 900 ft.lbs AT IMPACT is acceptable for ethical deer hunting? 250gr at 900 FPS would be half that.

Many factory 240g 44 mag loads are under 900lbs at the muzzle but few would arque its adequacy for deer. The "1000 lbs of energy minimum" is not based on any science. It was the effect of some gun writers posting their opinions in articles and it stuck to the point where some states base laws on that. Some writers of recent decades advocated a magnum 30 as their minimum for deer, so it that what it takes to kill them now?

Energy doesnt kill animals, never has and never will. Destruction of tissue is what kills, and believing that exterior ballistics can somehow predict terminal ballistics is an exercise in futility. For example, I can have a 223 55gr slug and a 4570 with a 405gr slug at the same energy yet one of those loads will thoroughly wipe out the bison population while the other will merely make a surface wound.

Ive taken deer with a 9mm and have never had to track them far. I limit my shots to under 50 yards and take shots when a good angle present itself. My only black bear was close to 300lbs and shot with a 265gr slug from my 45 1911 at 950fps. 531lbs of energy at the muzzle, shot at 30 yards and it completely wrecked both shoulders and everything in between. Dropped like a sack of potatoes and i couldnt ask for better performance.

Is the 9mm the optimal deer round, no. Can it be used to ethically harvest small deer like the OP intended. Yes absolutely, as long as he picks his shots carefully and used a good bullet. My choice for the OP is a 147xtp loaded as warm as you can. I run mine at 1150fps from a 4.7" tube and runs about 1230fps from a 6.5". Penetrates well and will do its job if you place it correctly. Ill also recommend a good wfn cast bullet if you can find a wide meplat version. I Ioad 357 mag bullets in mine but my guns are throated for oversized cast slugs.

I will agree with some above, you should get those groups down under 2" at 25yds before you go hunting and intimately learn deer anatomy (a must for all deer hunters) so you can take the deer as quickly as possible.

Good luck

 

[Terry G]

Don't do it. I live in a Whitetail rich area and have found Deer on my property every year that have been wounded and escaped only to die painfully and for nothing. Usually from arrow wounds, but also from gunshot's that are bad hit's (non-vital areas) or from ineffective caliber's. I say this as a AR lover, the .223 is often the culprit of lost Deer. Use an adequate rifle caliber and bring home the venison. I have used, and my Son uses .30/06 and have never lost or even had to track deer more than 80 yards. Whitetail Deer are tough animals and deserve better than to die slowly and become Coyote food. Last years Buck, one .30/06 from a Browning X-Bolt.

 

[Quigley]

I live minutes from NC and have hunted in NC for years. There is no caliber restriction in NC and you can hunt deer with a .22lr. I was squirrel hunting when a small 70lb deer stood up 35yards in front of me. I dropped it with one shot from my 10/22. That was literally the only deer that I have ever shot at it with a .22 and I've had other opportunities. I would have never taken the shot if I couldn't have done it ethically but I could and I did. I know deer anatomy very well and know what I am capable of i wont take a risky shot.

I have 357s, 12gauges and a 308 m77. I will be using a shotgun because I'll be in the woods but if a shot presented itself then i will take it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Macc283]

147gr +p+ underwood ammo

 

[Dave514]

Many factory 240g 44 mag loads are under 900lbs at the muzzle but few would arque its adequacy for deer. The "1000 lbs of energy minimum" is not based on any science. It was the effect of some gun writers posting their opinions in articles and it stuck to the point where some states base laws on that. Some writers of recent decades advocated a magnum 30 as their minimum for deer, so it that what it takes to kill them now?

Energy doesnt kill animals, never has and never will. Destruction of tissue is what kills, and believing that exterior ballistics can somehow predict terminal ballistics is an exercise in futility. For example, I can have a 223 55gr slug and a 4570 with a 405gr slug at the same energy yet one of those loads will thoroughly wipe out the bison population while the other will merely make a surface wound.

Ive taken deer with a 9mm and have never had to track them far. I limit my shots to under 50 yards and take shots when a good angle present itself. My only black bear was close to 300lbs and shot with a 265gr slug from my 45 1911 at 950fps. 531lbs of energy at the muzzle, shot at 30 yards and it completely wrecked both shoulders and everything in between. Dropped like a sack of potatoes and i couldnt ask for better performance.

Is the 9mm the optimal deer round, no. Can it be used to ethically harvest small deer like the OP intended. Yes absolutely, as long as he picks his shots carefully and used a good bullet. My choice for the OP is a 147xtp loaded as warm as you can. I run mine at 1150fps from a 4.7" tube and runs about 1230fps from a 6.5". Penetrates well and will do its job if you place it correctly. Ill also recommend a good wfn cast bullet if you can find a wide meplat version. I Ioad 357 mag bullets in mine but my guns are throated for oversized cast slugs.

I will agree with some above, you should get those groups down under 2" at 25yds before you go hunting and intimately learn deer anatomy (a must for all deer hunters) so you can take the deer as quickly as possible.

Good luck

And I'm sure broadheads aren't doing it by ft.lbs. Nor are 'Alabama ear hole' .22lr shots that drop them where they stand. But in the context of this thread with the parameters that have been discussed...9×19 doesn't cut it.

 

[Borg Warner]

Why not just use a rifle? Why use the absolute bare minimum of a handgun? because you can't afford a better gun? Then don't hunt. I love animals and I hate for them to have to suffer. That's why I feel so strongly about this.

A hunter taking a deer in the most painless way possible is preferable to the animal dying of injury or starvation so I believe that hunting is a good thing if it's done ethically

 

[F14A]

If you let the air out of him/her (lungs) he/she will die. It's that simple.

 

[skorper]

As far as I'm concerned it is unethical. Sure, you MAY be able to drop a deer with a .22 or 9mm with a perfect shot. We have all made a lot more imperfect shots than we are willing to admit. When there are other choices available to you it just makes no sense.
I am a proponent of using of using enough gun to give the greatest chances of a quick humane kill no matter what the animal.

 

[Quigley]

Why not just use a rifle? Why use the absolute bare minimum of a handgun? because you can't afford a better gun? Then don't hunt. I love animals and I hate for them to have to suffer. That's why I feel so strongly about this.

A hunter taking a deer in the most painless way possible is preferable to the animal dying of injury or starvation so I believe that hunting is a good thing if it's done ethically

I'm guessing you didnt even read my initial post much less any of my other posts. Thanks for your input though.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Glockman4]

Weird thing to try in my opinion. But then again I use a 300 Win mag for deer. I wouldn’t consider anything less than a 10mm personally.

 

[Borg Warner]

I'm guessing you didnt even read my initial post much less any of my other posts. Thanks for your input though.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

On teh contrary I've read all your posts in this thread but I still don't agree with not using the most efficient means possible to humanely harvest game.

 

[happie2shoot]

People, he is talking about shooting a
100 lb deer at very close range.

We have shot many deer with the 22 cfs,
I know a gunsmith friend that has shot
deer, elk and bear with the 223, mini 14.
Shot placement and a good bullet is what
is required. Same with all shots.

The deer that ran the farthest I shot was
with a 30-06 with a 165gr sp, the shot
was a quartering shot and penetrated a
lot of important parts, he ran probably
150 yards.

Two years ago my boy shot a big old
tough mule deer in the side with a 223,
55gr Hornady sp wc, velocity was 3012
fps, range was around 125 yards.

The shot was a little high, broke a rib
going in, punched through both lungs,
and broke a rib on the way out, he said
at the shot the deer turned 1/4 turn and
he shot again. Second shot went in
behind the shoulder, right side, and came
to rest up on the neck on the left side,
just under the skin, deer down.

I could not believe the damage that little
bullet did at the end of its travel.

Anyone that knows anything about a
double lung shot knows that is a very
good shot. The first shot was all that was
needed, he wanted to make the kill quick,
good boy.

It does not take much to go through both
lungs.

I have seen some very small deer in Florida
and Texas, Florida has the smallest where
I live. Would not think twice about shooting
one with a good 9mm boolit.

 

[Quigley]

On teh contrary I've read all your posts in this thread but I still don't agree with not using the most efficient means possible to humanely harvest game.

So then youd know that I have other more powerful options including 357, 12gauge and 308.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[NDcent]

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Why don't you try jumping out of a tree and stabbing it with a stick.

 

[Valmet]

So then youd know that I have other more powerful options including 357, 12gauge and 308.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Why don’t you use them instead?

 

[Quigley]

Why don’t you use them instead?

Why do people kill deer with a Bow and Arrow?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Terry G]

Why do people kill deer with a Bow and Arrow?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Much longer season, for one. If you like Hunting, Bow and now Crossbow, give you much more time in the woods. Today's compound bows and crossbows are accurate killing machines out to whatever your skill level is. They kill by blood loss mostly, not shock. And I've already said I've found plenty dead with an arrow or bolt in them and lost to the hunter. Give up the 9MM. Bragging rights aren't worth it.

 

[Valmet]

Why do people kill deer with a Bow and Arrow?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Because B&A requires a slightly different skill set and as Terry pointed out, the season is longer.

 

[Quigley]

Much longer season, for one. If you like Hunting, Bow and now Crossbow, give you much more time in the woods. Today's compound bows and crossbows are accurate killing machines out to whatever your skill level is. They kill by blood loss mostly, not shock. And I've already said I've found plenty dead with an arrow or bolt in them and lost to the hunter. Give up the 9MM. Bragging rights aren't worth it.

I dont see that an arrow is any more lethal than a 9mm XTP round placed in the same location on a <100pound deer. The wound channels will be about the same size and both will pass through provided they dont hit a shoulder. On top of that I know several dozen die hard bow hunters and dont know of a one that is any more accurate with their bow than I am with my pistol. I can consistently keep all rounds within 4" with the Hornady XTP rounds (these are the rounds that are the most accurate for me) and often times I'm shooting less than 3". I dont personally know any bow hunters that can do any better and no one is calling them inhumane.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk