Been getting mixed reviews on spring weight.... Glock 23

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Peter95, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. Peter95

    Peter95

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    So i've researched and found some sites saying that lighter weight spring will help with double taps, and i've heard that heavier springs are better.


    So, will attempt to ask here.

    Im trying to practice my shots so i can shoot 2-3 consecutively and wanted to know which weight spring is best for a glock 23.

    Thanks guys...
     
  2. Roger G23

    Roger G23 Glock Guy

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    I tried the heavier weight 22# I believe....freakin disaster! Multiple jams with Gold Dot hollow points....although worked fine with FMJ WWB. Turns out, I can't stand the G23....love the G27 however....conclusion: Don't f#c& with springweights....just my .02

    As you can see below, now I'm a 9mm and .45 man except for my loved G27.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010

  3. Steel Head

    Steel Head Tactical Cat

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    My G23 has fed and fired 3000+ rounds from cheap swill to top dog premium rounds with NO problems and stock springs
     
  4. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Unless you're a competitor talking about a strictly competition/sporting gun, where hundredths of a second can make or break a competition score, and your skills have already been optimized ... I'd think that over the long run it's arguably better to improve the shooter's skills and abilities using the stock spring than to tinker with spring weights/ratings in dedicated defensive guns. Trying to compensate for shooter abilities by modifying spring rates can lead to frustration and potential erratic functioning.

    The engineers have invested time & effort in determining a good balance of spring weight relative to slide velocity, feeding timing, magazine springs and overall optimal functioning.

    Why not look to improve the shooter's abilities within the established design specs?

    Being able to safely and smoothly draw, present and consistently fire an accurate single round is the first step in being able to fire 2 rounds ... then 3 rounds ... and so on. I've seen any number of folks achieve little aside from frustration when trying to exceed their skillset before their capabilities made it possible and practical.

    Look to the basics. Build a strong foundation.

    Firing a couple or more fast, but inaccurate, rounds is not preferable to making an accurate first shot. Being able to make a fast and accurate subsequent shot requires the same skills as making the first one.

    You might see if there's someone at a local range who offers basic firearms skill-building for folks. Learning to do it right, under the watchful eye of someone, is better than trying to rush it by trial & error. More enjoyable, too.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  5. Glockrunner

    Glockrunner HOOYA DEEPSEA

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    Double taps (with a clear sight picture) are going to be longer with a G23 (.40) than any 9mm because of recoil I believe. Not that it can't be done, just takes training and musle strenght to hold the gun and bring it back to bear on target.
     
  6. JBP55

    JBP55

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    Lighter is faster back on target with slightly less muzzle flip and slightly less felt recoil. There is a reason most competition shooters run 11# to 13# springs in Glock pistols. A 15# ISMI spring works good in a .40 Glock.
     
  7. robin303

    robin303 Helicopter Nut

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    Well said fastbolt. :thumbsup:
     
  8. txgunguy

    txgunguy

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    I shot my 2nd gen 23 with a 22# spring last night. To me, it tamed the recoil down.
     
  9. FLSlim

    FLSlim

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    Keep it simple. Stay stock, practice more to improve your speed.
     
  10. Roger G23

    Roger G23 Glock Guy

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    Once again, fastbolt delivers wisdom and experience with great eloquence and articulation.
     
  11. Peter95

    Peter95

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    Reason I ask is because I have 2 consecutive shots down to about half a second between each and near the center of the target , but I've been having a hard time cutting my double taps to right after another in like a 1/4 second between each.

    In a way I guess I'm looking for something that could slightly help in my improvement.

    I already have a good base for first and second shots. Just trying to improve my accuracy with double taps......

    So far I'm pretty used to my stock weight and was looking for something that may help
     
  12. RottnJP

    RottnJP Lifetime Member

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    Lighter weight would only be vaguely advisable if you're shooting powder-puff competition loads. If that's all you want to shoot, go right ahead and lighten if you want. (Although, in my book, why do that? Just go to a 9mm.) But if you want to shoot regular .40 loads in it, don't even think about lightening up the spring.

    If anything the stock .40 is under-sprung, and going to a lighter spring with normal .40 loads will flip the muzzle more because you'll be whacking the block and frame with a lot more force than you should. That is, the spring won't be absorbing enough of the slide's velocity for you. The result will be greater felt recoil, more muzzle rise, and longer split times.
     
  13. Peter95

    Peter95

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    Makes sense. Thanks guys for all the advice.
     
  14. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    A solid, consistent & well-practiced grip that allows for consistent return of the sight picture/alignment to the intended target, with consistent follow-through in 'sighting' during the trigger press, followed by a smooth & consistent trigger press after trigger recovery for subsequent shots. The basics.

    Start at 3 yards and slowly move out as your skills develop and permit consistency in the desired accuracy.

    It's easy to become distracted and confused by listening to subtle distinctions when it comes to shooting 2 round drills, too. Most instructors think of a double tap, or a controlled pair, as being 2 aimed shots, with each shot being aimed before the trigger stroke. This takes the time necessary to aim each shot for each trigger press. How fast can you "see" the target and decide whether a subsequent shot is merited (meaning lawful and practical)?

    Then, the next faster drill is often called a "hammer", which is usually taken to mean one sight picture/alignment followed by 2 fast trigger presses. This is faster than taking the time needed to aim each shot, but it obviously means the second shot is essentially not being aimed like the first shot. The proper grip technique must be mastered to enable the muzzle to return to the exact same spot so the second shot is as "accurate" as the first aimed shot ... and hopefully the intended target hasn't moved.

    These sorts of drills are best done under the supervision of someone trained to instruct other shooters. Safety is paramount. Proper technique is important. Consistent repetition of proper technique helps lay down the foundation needed to create "muscle memory". Trying to cut corners and then making mistakes can mean taking steps backwards, so to speak, in creating the desired skillset, too.

    I think I remember reading somewhere about some study of college athletes where the researcher determined that for every incorrect repetition performed, it required almost 10 correct repetitions in order to overcome the 'damage' done by the incorrect repetition. That makes it seem rather important to focus on repeating only the proper techniques, I'd think.

    When working with our shooters I constantly remind them to take the time necessary to make each shot hit the intended target. Fast misses are not useful and have potentially undesirable consequences when it comes to liability for hitting an unintended target (and they aren't of much use when it comes to the intended target, of course).

    Shooting faster than you can properly identify the target and make hits that are lawful and appropriate under the existing circumstances (which can change moment by moment), may make for enjoyable split times on a controlled range environment, but in real life they can have unfortunate and tragic consequences.

    I try to make folks start slow and focus on accurate and smooth. Safety in weapon handling and recognition of its condition (slide lock back, feeding stoppage, etc) helps build awareness. Being able to slowly & smoothly master the desired accuracy at increasing distances helps lay down and ingrain the skills needed to perform at the desired level. "Fast" is a consequence of being able to be "skilled & smooth".

    If the average human reaction is upwards of .75 seconds, then being able to make an accurate pair of hits within .5 seconds of each other, on 'demand', wouldn't seem to be necessarily "bad", would it?

    Being able to do it at 5 yards is probably going to be harder than at 3 yards ... and then moving out to 7 yards might be harder still ... but then suddenly back in to 3 yards might result in a surprising increase in observed "speed". Skill building may seem like it takes time, but you're looking for dividends that will exist and pay off for the rest of your life, aren't you?

    Don't burn ammo for the sheer sake of burning ammo and logging trigger time. Make each and every round count for something and mean something in your training.

    I'd rather have someone come by the range and fire a couple of magazines with specific goals in mind, and perform them exactly as desired, reinforcing what they've been working toward, than have someone stop by to simply burn up 200 rounds and then "do their best" for the last 5-10 rounds,after having "warmed up", and then feeling like they'd accomplished something with those last several rounds.

    Sorry for the rambling. Just some random thoughts. So much for the "eloquence and articulation", right Roger G23? :rofl:

    Got someone able to observe you and offer some insight into you being able to continue developing and refining your skills?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  15. Snarlingiron

    Snarlingiron

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    1. Software
    2. Hardware

    Get your head straight first, then the the hardware won't matter so much.
    When you have maximized your skills as far as you can, then maybe, maybe, just maybe diddling around with your hardware might get you a few hundredths of a second.

    If you haven't maximized what the software is capable of doing, hardware tweeks won't help you.

    Pretty much a re-statement of what fastbolt said.
     
  16. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    Look, the thing people forget about springs is they work BOTH ways. Yeah, a heavier spring will slow down the slide and make the recoil a little more tolerable. OTOH it also pushes the slide back into battery much harder which makes steadying the gun harder and also increases wear and tear on the mating surfaces of the barrel....

    I run a 2 lb heavier spring in my G30 and G27. But mostly stock spring weights in everything else.
     
  17. SNH Glocks

    SNH Glocks

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    I have fired many thousands of factory and handloaded rounds through two
    all stock G23s without any problems.
     
  18. HK Dan

    HK Dan

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    Fastbolt has it nailed.

    I have a couple of competition only GLOCKS and a couple of carry only GLOCKs. Spring weight makes a scintilla of difference, but dude, I have THOUSANDS of rounds through my guns and I'm going for split times from .15 to .12, right now you're .5.

    Skip the recoil spring, buy ammo. You need to have your grip nailed down tight--see Matt Burkett's sight for the best grip. He'll have you get the grip right, then put two hash marks on your thumbs and one down the centerline of the gun. Then you draw with your eyes closed until the sights are lined up every time, and the lines on your hand are lined up every time.

    This is foundational. Next, workon your eye speed. The "Double tap" is a myth--to hit both shots accurately you do need a flash sight picture, and you have to develop that. Try firing 3-5 shots as quickly as you can, timed, and marking them on a target with a pen before you look at where the bullets hit. Then match 'em up. Try spotting your ejecting brass and guessing where it lands while shooting as fast as you can.

    These things will help more than new springs. You MAY notice a slight difference by going from 15 to 11--the sights will snap back on target faster if your grip is good. If it's not, you gain nothing and will notice nothing. Matter of fact, I run stock springs inmy GLOCKs now, and I shoot SAAMI max ammo.
     
  19. Peter95

    Peter95

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    sounds good....
    Info like this make GT one of the best forums in the world...!

    Ill keep practicing to achieve my goals and thanks fastbolt for taking the time. That was very detailed
     
  20. ede

    ede

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    if your splits are over .5 seconds you need to develope your skills a bit more. as for spring weight no one or next to no one runs a heavier spring to reduce felt recoil or increase slide speed. i've not done much with a 23 but if it were me i'd try a 15# spring and go form there.