[Sit means Sit]

Assuming the details of the incident presented in the AAR are accurate and true - there should be criminal charges and civil liability attached for the decisions made by so-called "leadership".

I've had riot control training both in the academy and a limited amount while as a member of SORT before moving to my new spot, so I have a little background on how **** should be done. Baltimore didn't do it right, and that's a major understatement. Forcing officers into a riot scene without gear, and mandating that they are even allowed to wear a helmet, as they were being assaulted by rocks and other flying debris is simply inexcusable and demands criminal charges for those who made that decision. Further, civil litigation should follow - I see no reason to allow "commanders" to needlessly endanger the lives of police officers - and to not pay a steep price for doing so.

These decisons should come with a dear price. The leadership - or lack thereof - caused countless injuries to those who signed up to protect their community. If I act outside of established law (both statutory and case), policy, and fail the "reasonable person" litmus test long since established by the USSC in most cases that involve use-of-force - I will be held responsible. Said responsibility will include much more than the loss of my employment...and we all know it. Those responsible for this debacle should be held to the same standard.

I've got class to go to, and will reply more later, but I'll leave you guys with this: I'll be damned, if I will stand there and willingly allow myself to be hit with rocks and not defend myself and my fellow officers. It'd either be time to go home, or to sack up and do what we gotta do, employment worries taking a back seat.

**** that noise.

 

[steveksux]

Who gave the orders? Mayor?

Chief should have refused or resigned if need be if that was the case.

Randy

 

[volsbear]

Who gave the orders? Mayor?

Chief should have refused or resigned if need be if that was the case.

Randy

I think we've established that the outgoing commissioner has less than one tenth of one ounce of integrity, knowledge, and will.

 

[Cubdriver]

How on earth does Baltimore even still HAVE cops working for them after that Charlie Foxtrot? Nothing like sending people into harm's way, with orders not to do anything, then hanging them out to dry for following those orders. The inmates are truly running the asylum, and I feel awful for those cops being hamstrung like that. Idiocy from the top.

-Pat

 

[cowboywannabe]

How on earth does Baltimore even still HAVE cops working for them after that Charlie Foxtrot? Nothing like sending people into harm's way, with orders not to do anything, then hanging them out to dry for following those orders. The inmates are truly running the asylum, and I feel awful for those cops being hamstrung like that. Idiocy from the top.

-Pat

pay and time vested in is why older guys stay.... they simply can't take their pension plan with them and are too old to start over at the bottom. new guys are there for the training and experience, once they have that they will go to better departments....

 

[Sam Spade]

An officer reported: “On Saturday, April 25, 2105, I attended a roll call with
Commissioner Batts and a member of his command staff. During that roll call, Commissioner Batts told us to take our gloves off and not wear sunglasses because it looks intimidating. He further stated that we were not ready or prepared for what was about to happen. We were told to not wear our helmets until the on-scene supervisor told us to put them on. We were told our job was to deescalate. Command staff told us that we were not allowed to make an arrest unless it was approved by the legal team in unified command.”


 

[oldman11]

Unfortunately they really don't have a mayor. What they have is a politically correct person who is anti-American, and pro terror activity, and obviously racist and pro criminal. What I'm wondering is why she is still in office.

 

[janice6]

The mayor said the problem went all the way to the top. Then she fired her subordinate............... I guess almost to the top is a better version.

What ever happened to Hari Kari.

What a jug of Vinegar and Water.

 

[4949shooter]

An officer reported: “On Saturday, April 25, 2105, I attended a roll call with
Commissioner Batts and a member of his command staff. During that roll call, Commissioner Batts told us to take our gloves off and not wear sunglasses because it looks intimidating. He further stated that we were not ready or prepared for what was about to happen. We were told to not wear our helmets until the on-scene supervisor told us to put them on. We were told our job was to deescalate. Command staff told us that we were not allowed to make an arrest unless it was approved by the legal team in unified command.”


At this point in time he has to tell his people to protect themselves as they are trained and equipped to do.

If the mayor doesn't like it then tough titties. He got fired anyway, so he might as well have gone out like a leader protecting the men and women under his command.

 

[cowboywannabe]

Unfortunately they really don't have a mayor. What they have is a politically correct person who is anti-American, and pro terror activity, and obviously racist and pro criminal. What I'm wondering is why she is still in office.

she is a reflection of the majority of the populous.

 

[rdrkt]

An officer reported: “On Saturday, April 25, 2105, I attended a roll call with
Commissioner Batts and a member of his command staff. During that roll call, Commissioner Batts told us to take our gloves off and not wear sunglasses because it looks intimidating. He further stated that we were not ready or prepared for what was about to happen. We were told to not wear our helmets until the on-scene supervisor told us to put them on. We were told our job was to deescalate. Command staff told us that we were not allowed to make an arrest unless it was approved by the legal team in unified command.”


I was at that roll call at the western on Saturday. All of that is accurate. On top of that he said that we (the dept) were going to allow property damage to occur to get the news on our side. The next day at roll call he essentially said mission accomplished. This is more or less exactly what he allowed to happen when he was in charge of Oakland during their riots with almost the same wording of the excuse.

 

[unit 900]

How on earth does Baltimore even still HAVE cops working for them after that Charlie Foxtrot? Nothing like sending people into harm's way, with orders not to do anything, then hanging them out to dry for following those orders. The inmates are truly running the asylum, and I feel awful for those cops being hamstrung like that. Idiocy from the top.

-Pat

Years ago the BPD had bosses with testicles that clanged like brass gongs. Today’s bunch have testicles that tinkle like fine Waterford crystal in a light breeze.

 

[igor455]

i agree with unit 900 we had bosses with big onees when we came to the county most of our bosses were the same hit a police and you will go to the hospital. when i became a boss the same thing my shift knew that. that was rule one. no more needed to be said

 

[Sam Spade]

I was at that roll call at the western on Saturday. All of that is accurate. On top of that he said that we (the dept) were going to allow property damage to occur to get the news on our side. The next day at roll call he essentially said mission accomplished. This is more or less exactly what he allowed to happen when he was in charge of Oakland during their riots with almost the same wording of the excuse.

Can you comment on the current crime rate? Do cops believe that they'll be covered if proactive policing goes wrong? Or is everyone in "smile and wave" mode?

 

[cowboywannabe]

Can you comment on the current crime rate? Do cops believe that they'll be covered if proactive policing goes wrong? Or is everyone in "smile and wave" mode?

can you name any place where they believe that?

 

[Sam Spade]

can you name any place where they believe that?

My guys believe it, because it's worked for them. "You don't have to be right, you do have to be reasonable" still carries some weight in Baja Arizona.

 

[steveksux]

Unfortunately they really don't have a mayor. What they have is a politically correct person who is anti-American, and pro terror activity, and obviously racist and pro criminal. What I'm wondering is why she is still in office.

Because it's an elected position... Not one you actually apply for. So it's not as if you have to have any qualifications.

Randy

 

[steveksux]

I was at that roll call at the western on Saturday. All of that is accurate. On top of that he said that we (the dept) were going to allow property damage to occur to get the news on our side. The next day at roll call he essentially said mission accomplished. This is more or less exactly what he allowed to happen when he was in charge of Oakland during their riots with almost the same wording of the excuse.

Wow, makes me wonder if it was his idea rather than a direct order from the mayor, since he's got a history of this same behavior.

At the very least sounds like he would have agreed with her order. At worst he may have even talked her into it... :faint:

Randy

 

[rdrkt]

Can you comment on the current crime rate? Do cops believe that they'll be covered if proactive policing goes wrong? Or is everyone in "smile and wave" mode?

There are several factors going on all at once. First we just implemented a new patrol schedule this year that if the riot hadn't happened this would be a huge focus. They got rid of most of the pro active enforcement units to dump them in patrol and went with 4 shifts instead of the 3 we use to have. But they didn't have the man power to implement it properly so the shifts are going out 30-50% short. In their infinite wisdom they decided that since call volume was low to take midnight shift from 18ish on the old schedule to 9 but most nights they go out with 5 or so. So crime adapted and that's where we are getting most of our shootings. And in the western since they have to double up they might only have 3 cars patrolling. This is also one of the reasons why they closed the districts lobbies from 1900-0700. So while we have this huge manpower shortage how can you really go out on an arrest when there is no one to handle calls?

So on top of all of that we have the Justice dept in town and a states attorney that wants to put police in jail to further her and her husband's political career. So if you didn't do anything before you certainly aren't doing anything now. If you were aggressive before like me you have to realize you are on your own if anything goes sideways. Also most arrests now require a hospital detail. So everything takes a few extra hours which doesn't encourage lockups.