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Average time to first shot? What should I be shooting for?

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by DistantTea, Nov 25, 2004.

  1. DistantTea

    DistantTea Monkey Vendor

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    Pun unintended.

    What kind of time to first shot should I be looking for with GSSF style "from ready" shooting?

    What about for indoor league stuff where accuracy in the x ring counts more than speed?

    I practice from ready every weekend and I feel like its taking forever to get that first sight picture, especially against NRA D1s. If I"m just shooting an 8" paper plate from 11yards (and obviously estimating) it takes me about a second to a second and a half to go from ready to fire with a hit, but on an NRA D1 at that distance it take me on average 1.5 to 2 seconds and at 25 yards... damn it just takes me forever to get a sight picture that I know will be in at least the 10 ring when that break happens.

    I keep practicing, especially with dry fire drills going from ready to pulling the trigger at one my super cool improvised dry fire targets (ok its a CDR tacked to the wall at 10 feet). But I don't feel like I am improving my time to fire at all.

    Any pointers? Or drills to speed those time to fires up?
     
  2. Mark L Miller

    Mark L Miller

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    Tom,
    Have you read all the tips from the pros that Bobby Carver put together last year? There are some pointers that might help you along these lines. The one I most remember is not to listen for the beeeeep but when you hear be, get moving. Does that make sense? I was having a particularly good day the other day & had some times to first shot at about .5s. It was a good day! Anyhow, I think if you were to time the beeeep from beginning to end, it lasts about .3 of a second. If you wait until it quits, you have wasted a fair amount of time. Now, as for acquiring a sight picture faster, practice is absolutely your best bet. I do something you might try, especially if you are over 40 (like me). I do not stare at the target, waiting for the buzzer. I look at the ground about 10 feet out in front. Bobby Carver suggested that to me once & I have found it works well for me. Not sure exactly why but if I am staring at a target (10yards away or further) my eyes are focused on it, then they have to refocus all the way back to my front sight. Maybe my eyes don't do that so well, I'm not sure. Anyway, I get in position, gun ready, footing right, look at gun sights, look at target making sure my head is exactly pointed the way I want it, then I focus on a spot on the ground between my gun, & the target. Be, as gun comes up, focus draws back from ground to sight, target slightly fuzzy, bang,reset, bang, look at next target, continue shooting. Try it a few times, it might work for you as well. It won't for everyone, I am sure, but it does for me. Good luck, MLM
     

  3. DistantTea

    DistantTea Monkey Vendor

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    I've read quite a few of those tips. It was a great source to get started. I don't have a shot timer so I use my imagination. I have been looking at the target. When I practice I'll start looking down at the floor instead and give it a whirl.

    I'm realitivly young and just getting started. My eyes are shot though due to ten years of nonstop computer work.

    I'm starting to wonder if its my eyes. I was just practicing a minute ago and notice I could come to sight picture much faster with my left eye closed. But I have trouble shooting multiple targets quickly with only one eye. It might be time to tape my glasses I guess.
     
  4. Rikki

    Rikki Pathetic Loser

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    Well, you might try some dry-firing drills focusing on the front sight ONLY as you stand at the "ready" position. It helps me to lock on the front sight and never take my eye off of it... but I got old bad eyes...
     
  5. driver8m3

    driver8m3

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    i think accuracy is more important in the outdoor matches too. lets say you feel like your time to first shot is slow at 2 seconds. 1 second would certainly be better, but not if that first quick shot ends up as a C, or worse, a D or a mike. speed comes with practice and repetition. practice hitting the A zone enough and eventually you'll be fast...and accurate. in the amateur classes especially, the guy with the fastest raw time rarely wins (some of the masters are very fast and very accurate).

    but, if you really want to see some #s...my first shot on the 5 yard target (5TG stage) is around 0.7-0.8 seconds. for the 10 yard target (GM stage) and the plates, its about 0.8-0.9 seconds. those times arent blazingly fast, but you cant afford to take penalties on those close targets...
     
  6. DistantTea

    DistantTea Monkey Vendor

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    I went practicing today in the cold. From ready I tried focusing on the target for 10, then on the ground between me and the target for ten and then another 10 where my eyes actually just stayed on my front sight. I did seem to get my sight picture faster with that inbetween focus, where both the gun and the target are in perifrial.

    I realized that I wasn't ready to be able to come to fire as fast as I needed so I focused on trying to get the most accurate first shot as possible.

    I also keep screwing with my sights on my G34. After accidentally sending my windage all the way to the left (I couldn't figure out why it wasn't going up and down... dumb) it took me three shots to get it zero'd.

    Must have been magic because from 11 yards I was shooting a 2" spread for the rest of the string. So I figure I'm at least not going to miss the plates and for an indoor match I'm good out to 50 feet to stay inside the x ring.

    I still don't have the nack for 25 yards. I don't know why I shoot so much different between 50 and 75 feet but its just night and day. I shoot 2" groups (give or take) from 25 to 50 feet but when I go out to 75 feet I'm suddenly shooting no better than 6" spreads. Its gotta be psychological.
     
  7. splashdown

    splashdown nra member

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    I am by no means a master at this (or GM, or even an A), and I definitely need more practice myself. I find that if I'm going for the quickest draw I can get, the rest of my game suffers because I didn't get a good grip. If I take my time and get a proper grip on the gun I can make better hits during the stage. Slower Alphas scores higher than really fast Mikes.

    splashdown
     
  8. CCV

    CCV Millennium Member

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    Hit the middle...........................as fast as you can.


    (But, hit the middle)
     
  9. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

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    Ok since you asked.

    I will let you in on one of the great secrets of life.

    "YOUR EYE IS THE SAME DISTANCE FROM THE FRONT SIGHT AT 7YDS AS IT IS AT 25YDS!!!!!"

    You have to hold the perfect sight picture in FRONT of the target.

    Prove this to yourself. Turn your target around. Shoot the blank back side. This will give you a blank(nothing to look at)surface to hold your sight picture in front of.

    If your sight picture has the top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight AND the front sight is centered in the gap of the rear sight AND you squeeze the trigger without moving the picture,when you turn the target around you will be happy with your score.
     
  10. 40blaster

    40blaster

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    On times, back last year when I was practicing three times a week, over thirty thousand rounds a year( I am sixty years old):
    G-5= .63, .87, 1.55, 2.16, 2.98, 3.61, 4.34, 5.09, 5.63, 6.03
    G-M= .87, 1.30, 2.23, 2.90, 3.21, 4.34, 5.07, 5.84, 6.38
    PR= .50, .77, 1.06, 1.36, 1.68, 1.95 a 1.64 is my best PR time in a match
    A 59. something is my best total match score so far .
    I point shoot the 5yd target on the G-5 now and have dropped it to .50 and .85.
    I believe long range practice is best, at least fifty yards.
    I have gotten tangled up in USPSA recently and it DEFINITELY ruins my GSSF scores so stay focused.
    You must be able to hold EACH AND EVERY ONE of your shots inside the 8 inch ring on the D1 target, at thirty yards to be competitive.

    I hope this helps you to analyze the time it should take for each of your shots. I have the most trouble with the two twenty yard targets on the G-M because I hurry my shots towards the steel.
    Fred
     
  11. Fireglock

    Fireglock Which is worse?

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    Damn you're almost as old as Don at PC! ;f
     
  12. jay.shebuski

    jay.shebuski

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    ...I train..to hit the A ring, on the 1st target, in under a second. The same for the 1st plate.

    I look where I want the rd to hit,..bring the weapon up on that sight line..front sight..and release the shot (the front sight and release are almost instantaneous)

    I don't think about it when I'm doing it..it just happens. Which doesn't mean I always hit where I want to -HA..just that I see myself doing it.

    Jay
     
  13. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

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    Yep Fireglock; "But almost only counts in throwing Horse Shoes and Hand Grenades. ;f ;f ;f ~2 ~2 ~2 ^3
     
  14. DistantTea

    DistantTea Monkey Vendor

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    All very good info thanks.
     
  15. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

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    FARTS!
     
  16. WIG19

    WIG19 Light left on

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    ^c Do this quite often myself; much better practice IMO (if you haven't got D1's setup) for shooting a buff-colored D1 than focusing on a black area that doesn't exist in competition. Great for dry-fire. :)
     
  17. Norske

    Norske Millennium Member

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    FWIW, I suggest that new shooters completely ignore SPEED and concentrate entirely on accuracy. A new shooter CANNOT shoot both accurately AND fast! Speed with accuracy comes with proper training, practice, and experience. There are no shortcuts; you have to put the time and practice in. Your first goal should be to shoot an entire match without putting one single bullet outside a "B" zone (knocking all steel over, of course). Don't worry about the times. When the day comes that you can shoot the entire match "clean", THEN you should start speeding up so long as your accuracy does not suffer.
     
  18. pangris

    pangris Moderator

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    EXCELLENT advice. Slower is faster. I had 7 or 8 "C" hits on Glock M with avg 7.34 second runs. I wish I had shot 8.34 second runs with no C's, as I am 100% capable of hitting the damn B zone at 20 yards.

    Ditto the plates... out of 4 runs, I had to pick up a plate on three of those runs. Could have saved 1.5 seconds there, too.

    Understand the scoring before you start shooting... Cost me a gun, and I have no one but myself to blame. :(

    Next time ;D