Atlanta - the ARNG is on the way

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by blueiron, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. SAR

    SAR CLM

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    Most recently, here in Los Angeles, the National Guard has their M4 rifles and they were issued ammunition for their rifles. I had many conversations with them at various locations and their answers were all the same. They were to observe and report any suspicious or criminal activity, but they were not to engage civilians. They were not equipped with any less than lethal force options including batons. They only had their rifles. To a man (and a few women) was they all understood that if they opened fire with their M4s on a crowd over a property crime, i.e. looting or vandalism, they were done.

    People have short memories, but back in 1970, National Guardsmen opened fire on student protestors killing four of them and wounding nine others. The outrage from that shooting changed history and makes the current unrest look like a picnic.
     
  2. larry_minn

    larry_minn Silver Member Millennium Member

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    Like today few seem to know the truth about those peaceful protesters.
     

  3. Deltic

    Deltic

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    There is a lot of room in GO2 for leadership to make it all kabuki theater.
    "
    Army General Orders
    General Order 1
    I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved.

    General Order 2
    I will obey my special orders and perform all of my duties in a military manner.

    General Order 3
    I will report violations of my special orders, emergencies, and anything not covered in my instructions to the commander of the relief."
     
  4. Deltic

    Deltic

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    IIRC we had 10 rounds of 5.56 and no duct tape. We were supporting the police, one cop with his pistol and three soldiers with M-16's per Humvee. The rules of engagement were not overly restrictive.
     
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  5. pgg00

    pgg00

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    4 of our guys were activated this round. They were issued no weapons and were told they were not allowed to have any. They were given shields but were told they would only carry them and defer to LE if anyone tried to attack them. They were pissed. They would have been more effective still being kept as officers instead of NG.
     
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  6. Deltic

    Deltic

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    Do you remember after 9/11 they put unarmed NG in the airports? Some(most?) of our leaders are idiots.
     
  7. pgg00

    pgg00

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    Yep. And at one point they were even allowed to carry rifles. but no mags or ammunition
     
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  8. SAR

    SAR CLM

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    I’m just going to play the devil’s advocate and ask a serious question. What do you think would happen in today’s climate if a National Guard squad opened fire with their M4 carbines on a crowd of looters or rioters and killed say 10 or 20 of them on the spot?
     
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  9. Deltic

    Deltic

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    The left would riot, loot and vandalize property but they might start showing restraint around NG soldiers. Really what would they do that they are not doing now? The news media is already saying we have a horrible country, are they going to say we have a double secret horrible country? BTW I think it would be far more likely that one or two rioters get shot than 10 or 20.
     
  10. LilCop2002

    LilCop2002

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    A similar question was asked locally last month. The answer, unsurprisingly, was a shift in conversation to a lack of training on and failing subordinates by not properly teaching, evaluating, exercising, and reiterating Use of Force and ROEs...

    Realistically speaking I see many NG units being activated around the US for any number of reasons with no WARNO/OPS briefings and no experiences with pissed off people. While I understand certain specialities (admin, EMA, CBRN-E, etc) not being armed, I see no reason for them to be on the lines but have also noticed many of the persons being placed on the front lines are not MPs/SF.

    Many NG leaders are ignorant to the PCA and their usage of MPs. Title 32/10 NG personnel cannot be utilized for civilian LE work as the feds are footing the bill and are basically observe and report sentries. State Active duty personnel may, however, be used in a LE capacity as they would be more closely aligned with a Trooper than a Fed . While the Army NG (ARNG) usually takes command of a scene their arming and UoF policies are significantly different than Air NG (ANG) which causes a huge divide:

    ANG identifies that pistol is loaded, round in chamber, and weapon on fire whereas ARNG commanders threatened to Article 15 ANG guys for arming this way.

    The ARNG also did not want armed personnel on-scene. This began a bad precedent as this position was moving forward until ANG stepped in and refused to deploy personnel without proper duty gear, weapons, LtL weapons, and etc.

    Finally, ANG SF Domestic Operations (DOMOPS) personnel (maybe ARNG) are specifically trained for this type of situation but are not often requested. A friend of mine stated that the ANG had a team trained and ready to go but the ARNG solely wanted the BRAND NEW (unboxed to inventory and boxed) DOMOPS gear but no SF personnel to support the mission.
     
  11. GcB

    GcB Can't type, don't spell, what's grammar.

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    I’m going to tongue-in-cheek play devil’s advocate as well and answer: Give them all some ****ing medals!!
     
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  12. Deltic

    Deltic

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    NG soldiers have been known to carry a few extra rounds just in case. :cowboy:
     
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  13. cheygriz

    cheygriz God Bless Trump

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    Here in Wyoming they carried M-16s with LOADED mags.
     
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  14. LilCop2002

    LilCop2002

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    Seriously... don't do that! Updating ribbon/medal racks is expensive for the member. Maybe give a presidential citation and a large bonus not tied to an enlistment commitment instead?
     
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  15. pgg00

    pgg00

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    The ones I went to were Oakland, SF, and Sacramento
     
  16. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    And good luck getting it to feed after having duct tape over the top round.

    Yes, that is pretty typical of what I'd expect from the military.

    On the other hand, Kentucky National Guard was called out to the recent riots in Louisville and was patrolling the street with loaded weapons - turns out it was the National Guard who shot this guy when he started firing at the police. https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/l...-shoot-west-end-bbq-restaurant-owner.1832556/
     
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  17. Quijibo

    Quijibo King Doofus.

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    Wouldn't it be cheaper just to send a bunch of these?
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    We drew weapons but no magazines or ammo was issued during post Hurricane Andrew ops. Personally owned weapons weren't common but they were there.
     
  19. cheygriz

    cheygriz God Bless Trump

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    When a man is no longer willing to defend himself, he's no longer a man.

    I believe that also applies to a nation.:(
     
  20. Darkangel1846

    Darkangel1846

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    If I was in the NG I would refuse to go to Atlanta!