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'At Will' employment, what are your thoughts?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Slug71, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Jbar4Ranch

    Jbar4Ranch B-Western Hero Millennium Member

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    Absolutely. He is an older man, 60 IIRC, retired from another job, and has a very sour attitude coupled with a caustic demeanor. He should have been fired several years ago, but for some reason the company won't allow the managers to take any disciplinary action against hourly employees. I had talked to him about his attitude, the hunting managers had talked to him about his attitude, and the store manager & assistant manager had talked to him about his attitude.

    On the morning in question, I had tended to some business in the cash office, then walked back to the gun counter toward my office. When I passed the gun counter, "Chuck" looked at his watch and, loudly enough so that half the damn store could hear, "HA, late again, as usual". I said, "Piss off, Chuck" and continued to my office. The store manager had been looking for some time for a reason to terminate me, and this was his opportunity. The store manager is a younger man, I think he was only 25 when he took the store over, and he's done some things that don't sit well with me, not the least of which was several hundred dollars vandalism to my place that he and a couple of his friends did. I told them none of them needed to ever come back and that was the beginning of the end for me. He lost his private several hundred acre hunting, fishing, shooting, recreation area and got even.
    I've seen this man actually punch one of the department managers, laying him out on the floor where he laid for at least a full minute holding his stomach before he attempted to get up. I've seen this man let one of his buddies, the archery lead, keep his job after being caught red handed on camera stealing an item from the store. He made him bring it back and that was the end of it. Nothing in his record, let alone not fired for it. Same with "Chuck" - he took a holster one day and was allowed to bring it back with no consequence.

    I now work for the state of Montana as a "Delivery Services Driver" - good pay, weekends off, flexible hours, paid sick days, eleven paid holidays a year, but I don't enjoy it like I did that job.
     
  2. TheJ

    TheJ NRA Life Member Lifetime Member

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    Correct. It's also illegal to term somebody based on their being old... Which is why I ask how it would save money.

    The whole no-reason is practically never used by employers because it opens them up for expensive legal battles.
     

  3. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    I think most larger companies stopped giving out references on past employees years ago. It does not matter why the person no longer works for the company - you still only give out the basic -

    Start date, end date, maybe job held, if employee signed the release form you will agree to provide salary history.

    Laid off is just a reason you were terminated -

    I guess if you say - I was laid off it sounds better than - I was fired for being drunk & fighting on the job.
     
  4. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    You should sell your story as a movie....

    But reading your post, you were gone long before you told chuck to piss off; you just didnt know it.

    When you have a personal grudge/vendetta/fight with your manager, you should be looking for a new job. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that is how it is.
     
  5. Jbar4Ranch

    Jbar4Ranch B-Western Hero Millennium Member

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    Yeah, it was just a matter of time.
     
  6. droidfire

    droidfire

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    Yea, character references are dead in big business. Small business will still provide glowing reviews for good workers.

    Mostly anymore it's simply a verification of employment within a specified time period from HR at large companies.
     
  7. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    Can't recall exactly when maybe 1990 something - but there were a few court cases that changed companies view on giving references.

    The obvious - not telling prospective employers that the X employee was a child molesting drunk that stole company assets to pay for his coke habit - had been in use for a long time.

    Never say anything bad seemed reasonable -

    Many companies were using the - if it is a good reference then go ahead and tell the person asking that the person was a good employee - hard worker - smart - whatever - how can telling them good things hurt you - just don't say anything bad.

    Then a few companies - relying on the good reference from the prior employer - ended up hiring someone that actually was a child molesting drunk with a drug problem.

    BAM - they get sued for big bucks for only telling the good.

    The next round - what really killed references was when a company got sued because they gave out good references for good employees - but if the former employee had some problems then they would say - sorry we don't give out references.

    So then the company ended up losing a law suit - and paying some loser former employee a pile of cash - because the fact that they would not give out a reference on a bad person - but would give them out for a good former employee - told everyone that - no reference must mean something REALLY BAD.


    At this point the only reasonable thing you can do is just say - we don't give references...

    :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  8. Hef

    Hef Stop Obammunism

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    The only reason I have employees is to increase profits for myself. They are employed solely to increase the amount of work the business completes in a week, so I can invoice for more money (and thus more profit). If they aren't productive enough, and/or they make mistakes that cut into the profit, they get fired. If business slows down, I cut jobs as needed to stay profitable. I don't owe anybody a job.

    That may sound harsh, but that is the reality of operating a small business in 2012. I do my best to land jobs to keep everyone working 40+hrs/wk but that doesn't always happen.

    As for those who need to be fired, I am glad to operate in a state that doesn't interfere with my right to fire people as I see fit.
     
  9. CaptCave

    CaptCave

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    Most people that have never had to make a payroll, won't understand that.
     
  10. Hef

    Hef Stop Obammunism

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    Sometimes I feel like employees think we just shake the magic money tree and payroll falls out of it. They don't understand that failing to meet deadlines has consequences, some if which are financial.
     
  11. RustyL

    RustyL

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    Exactly, some of us get trapped into working for ass holes. Stastics show, people like their jobs, they dislike the people who run it.
    I can only speak for myself, your employer is at will also. I do not agree with at will employement




     
  12. Hef

    Hef Stop Obammunism

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    Start your own business and do it your way.
     
  13. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    How do you get trapped?
     
  14. Arquebus12

    Arquebus12 Non-broccophobe CLM

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    Good Lord... [​IMG]

    You voted for Obama, didn't you?
     
  15. Halojumper

    Halojumper

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    You're really locked onto this thing, aren't you? I bet you'd be a lot happier in the long run if you'd just learn to let things go.
     
  16. CaptCave

    CaptCave

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    No owes you a job or a living.

    If you do not like your employment, make other arrangements. Go back to school, learn new skills, better yourself.

    You aren't trapped unless you are unwilling to make the changes necessary to better your situation.
     
  17. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    I don't understand your comment. My posts have not been nasty or even harsh - I am not unhappy about anything -

    I did have my share of issues with people that needed to be fired. It sure would have been easier to just drop the hammer on the losers without the fear of a large legal bill.


    Maybe if you don't like / agree with my posts you should put up some of your own experience - or put me on ignore - then you would be happier.:cool:
     
  18. Slug71

    Slug71

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    There really isn't more to it.

    On the 21st of Oct., a female courtesy clerk(under age) reported to a manager that a male(20 something) in dairy department had pressured her into having sex with him in his truck in the parking lot. The manager called down to our office and asked if she could come see us. She then changed her mind and asked for my partner to go up and see her. I was a little peeved by that and my partner also disagreed with that. He called our LP boss and told her what was happening. Next day I was fired.

    In the 19th, one of the courtesy clerks knocked on our door three times and ran away. This happened during an investigation with a shoplifter. I know the manager that was present as a witness was peeved and reported it to upper management. Because I got along with staff, I suspect that it was my fault that the courtesy clerk did that.

    A week before that, the store manager asked us to park where everyone else parks. We used to park behind the store and enter through the back where vendors usually come and go. We've always done this. I did ask my LP boss why this changed but we did start parking in the front of the store as requested.

    Thats all thats happened in the recent couple of months that I know of.

    But yes they didn't fight unemployment
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  19. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

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    Do you have another job yet?
     
  20. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Wow. You defs are better off away from there!