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'At Will' employment, what are your thoughts?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Slug71, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. CAcop

    CAcop

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    A lawyer would love that one. Plus it would have a ripple effect in the company. They might save one pension but then they would loose it all with training people to replace those who leave.
     
  2. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Its not truly balanced though since we have unions.

    I see all these lazy asses that is near impossible to fire and then my situation comes along.
    I would rather have mandatory warnings in place giving an employee the chance to correct an issue management has and see the unions disappear.

    Theft, sexual harassment, financial hard ship on the employer etc. would still be grounds to term an employee immediately.
    Although, financial hardship relates more to a lay-off than being terminated.

    Most employers give a 90 day evaluation period anyway.
     

  3. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Appreciate your feedback. :)
     
  4. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Excellent point! So no laws or unions required. The market would discourage such behavior.

    Nice catch CACOP!
     
  5. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Thats a personal opinion and is borderline discrimination.

    If the employee works. Keep him.
     
  6. Slug71

    Slug71

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    I understand it. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it 100%.
     
  7. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

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    OP, I'm guessing that you've never had hiring and firing as part of your job?
     
  8. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

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    There is no law forbidding "discrimination" as such.

    There are laws which forbid [employment] discrimination on the basis of race, age, ethnicity, or religion.

    Of course it is.
    As the owner, my opinion is all that counts here.


    You miss my point.
    If I hire you and you pass some "probationary period" then great.
    What if you simply fail to develop in the position as well as I expected you to?

    What if, in my judgment you will never develop to provide me with what I feel my business needs? Of what value then is "a warning?".

    Must I warn you, then wait for an additional period to find that I was correct, that you just don't have what it takes, no matter your best intention and efforts?
    What if I simply do not have the time for that?
    What if my business interests dictate that I act NOW to acquire the person I need to do the job?

    Why can I not be free to act in the way that is in the best interest of my business?
    My business is there to make a profit for me, not to provide you with employment.


    Employers having freedom to hire and fire as they see fit is what creates the possibility of a strong business which can then survive in the marketplace and grow to provide employment for the most people.


    What you are looking for is "fair".
    Believe me, in the real world you aren't going to find it, except occasionally. Even then, don't bet on it always being that way.


    Respectfully I gotta ask, you're pretty young, aren't you?
    Twenties perhaps?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  9. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Firing was part of this job though i've never had to it myself. I did do an investigation on an employee which got fired and I was present in the termination of the employee.
     
  10. Hawkeye16

    Hawkeye16

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    At will employment will only be viewed as fair by those that are worth keeping around.

    It's just not plausible to force an employer to keep a crap employee. I mean, look at the mess the public education system is right now.


    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  11. Slug71

    Slug71

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    32.

    Yeh I think a warning is fair. The employee may have made financial commitments during his employment there. While not your responsibility, those commitments could be related to the job(car, relocation...).
     
  12. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Agreed.

    Though, I believe I was worth keeping.
    I saved and made that company a lot of money.
     
  13. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    What an employee thinks is "fair" is only relevant to the extent that the employee can get the employer to agree.

    So what?

    I have a child support payment I have to make every month. How is that my boss's problem? My own personal finances are my own personal business.

    If I had to relocate for a job, I'd either find a way to have the job cover it (which I could do if I had scarcity power--"I'll only come work for you if you'll guarantee my lease"), or I'd accept the risk.

    That's just how life works. There's risk in everything, including having a job. You're trying to push all of the risk on the employer, and what ends up happening is that employers hire fewer people. Hiring becomes too risky for them. What happens in the end is fewer jobs for everyone.

    The best answer is always freedom: in this case, freedom for both parties involved in an employment contract to do as they've agreed to do.
     
  14. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    I'll be blunt: whoever signs your paycheck disagrees with you.

    Now, maybe you're right. Maybe he's right. But his opinion is the only one that matters.

    If you're a good employee, you should be able to find another job. If the boss is an idiot who fires people for no reason, eventually his business will go under.

    That's how the universe works. As soon as you start trying to put "rules" on it, you make it less efficient.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  15. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

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    Again, you are expecting it all to be "fair".
    It isn't and it isn't going to be so.

    Actually, I don't have a business myself, at least not in the sense that you mean.
    The business I do though, I do specifically because it doesn't require employees, which was always one of my primary criteria.

    Regardless, to survive a business owner must be free to choose employee based on his/her interests.
    Again, businesses exist to make a profit for the owner, not to provide employment to anyone.

    Trust me, I've been "fired" if you want to think of it that way more times than you probably ever will.

    What did I do about it? I went to their competitors and presented to them my ability to help them make a profit.
    I demonstrated my ability and willingness to create value.
    It's the only thing that ever got me paid. It's the only thing I ever expect to get me paid.
     
  16. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

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    So no. Believe you me, things are very different on the other side of the desk.
     
  17. Slug71

    Slug71

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    I did state that the finances are NOT the employer's responsibility.
     
  18. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Agreed.
     
  19. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Oh I don't doubt it.
     
  20. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

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    At "will"?



    I just wish someone "would".:shocked: