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'At Will' employment, what are your thoughts?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Slug71, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    That doesn't mean there wasn't one.

    And there it is.

    (To be fair, I don't know you, but this could very well be the reason. It's easy to screw up "dating someone at work" without even noticing.)
     
  2. arclight610

    arclight610

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    How about this example:

    Say I am a recruiter for a company based out of California, and I attend a career fair at a university in Colorado looking for a couple of engineers. At the career fair, I get 30 interested applicants. I conduct a hasty interview and decide to "hire" them all on the spot, with a promise of a job starting a month after they graduate with a salary higher than any other employer at the career fair is offering.

    Graduation comes, and the students need to start preparing for their new job. So, they all sign leases in California and pay lots of money to move their stuff out there. After Day 1 of work, my company decides to keep the 2 that they want and fire the other 28. Essentially, using the hiring process as one large screening event. So, now those 28 people are up the creek without a paddle because they were led on by the company and were able to be fired without reason.
     

  3. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    Word would get out and the company would lose valuable employees. All decisions have a cost.

    Granted we are only talking about pension positions which are becoming more rare. If I got fired the day before retirement it would not matter. Retirement is my 401K which I own.
     
  4. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Nope.

    What if my issue is "I can't make payroll this month unless I fire someone"?

    What if the issue is "the employee is creeping out my customers"?

    Employees can quit and employers can fire them. That's an equal balance of power. No reason to mess with it.
     
  5. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    That's why all retirements should switch to defined-contribution. No vesting, no time-in-service requirements. Would prevent this kind of problem.

    But to answer the question you asked, yes, of course employers could do that. But if they did, then the retirement benefit they offer wouldn't be worth much, would it? Word would get out. People would know.
     
  6. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    Sure and in the day of social media they would have a lot of problems next career fair hiring anyone. If I am looking at a company I do lot of homework on them.

    Also if you are a strong enough candidate you negotiate relocation costs.

     
  7. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Would only work once. Yes, it sucks for those 28 folks, but what would happen the next year is that if an employer required someone to move, they'd have to offer in writing that they'll cover the relocation expenses and whatever fees are incurred in breaking a lease if things don't work out.

    You can play "what if" forever. I can make up a dozen scenarios where employees screw employers. The fact is that no system is perfect.

    Allow employees to quit. Allow employers to fire people. That's the only way to have a truly equal balance of power.

    Now, it won't be equal for everyone--the more replaceable the employee (ie, less skill / experience required to do the job) the more likely the employer is to be willing to fire, and vice versa. But that's just the way life works.
     
  8. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

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    And that is the simple truth.
     
  9. arclight610

    arclight610

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    To be honest, I really haven't formulated an opinion yet on at-will employment. I see where both sides are coming from.

    When I worked at the Pentagon, there was this 400lb guy in a Hoveround always sleeping in the hallways. He usually had a 128 oz soda or bag of Ruffles in his lap too. I asked around to see what his deal was, and apparently he was the head guy in building maintenance. The people I asked also told me that it was almost impossible to get fired being a civilian employee of the DOD at the Pentagon; the only way is if you did something criminally. I could see where at-will employment would have be great in that situation.

    I also see how at-will employment could be terrible in some situations.
     
  10. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Before I go to work for a company I research them thoroughly.

    In a situation like that I would be negotiating a signing bonus, guarantee or relo package.

    Right now the major oil companies are offering $50,000 sign on bonus for a chemE or petroleum engineer with a 3.5 or better. That or they'll zero out your student loans. That easily covers a 12 month lease.
     
  11. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

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    Of course it can...
    Who said life would be "fair" or always pleasant?

    <not specifically directed at you here, but..>
    Your best position is one of strength. Be capable and willing to create value and you won't have to worry about it.

    Stuff happens sometimes even so, but if you have the ability to create value in the marketplace and are willing to exert the effort to do so then you will be rewarded for it.

    It isn't always easy, but it isn't supposed to be.

    Steve Martin once said "be so good that they can't ignore you".
     
  12. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Isn't that what the 'probabtionary' period is for?
     
  13. Slug71

    Slug71

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    I did maintenance there before I moved over to LP. Ive been dating her since and they knew that.
     
  14. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Like I said, I don't know you. I'm sure you're a nice guy.

    But the fact remains, just because they didn't tell you a reason doesn't mean there wasn't one. And maybe the reason doesn't have anything to do with you.

    Employers and employees should be required to do whatever they agree to in writing, and nothing more. If you think an employer should be required to give a warning before firing, try and negotiate that into your contract on your next job.

    If you have the scarcity power to demand that, then they'll do it for you. If you don't, well... that's how the cookie crumbles. Put up, find another opportunity, or start your own business.
     
  15. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Payroll situation is fine.

    As for the other. The employee should be warned and given a chance to correct his ways. Else bye bye.

    Everyones opinions seem so black or white. No middle ground.
     
  16. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

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    And if I give you a probationary period but 3 months later I decide I just don't want you because I don't like having you around?
     
  17. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Damn! Im in the wrong business.
     
  18. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

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    And that is the point I made earlier about "creating value".
    It's just the way business works. Really.
     
  19. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    There isn't any middle ground.

    Either people are allowed to make decisions within their own private business, or they're not. It's binary.
     
  20. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

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    Absolutely.
    What is difficult to understand about this?