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'At Will' employment, what are your thoughts?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Slug71, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Il be sure and tell my non union electrician he's incompetent. I'm sure he'll get a good laugh out of it.
     
  2. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Union butthurt is the best (and most expensive) butthurt.
     

  3. Roger1079

    Roger1079

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    My electrician is a union worker and he does great work. I was never questioning the abilities of workers that are union employees. I was questioning the statement by di11igaf that non union workers do inferior work.
     
  4. Hef

    Hef Stop Obammunism

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    The problem with the union electricians is figuring out which guy did it wrong, and which 3-5 of his coworkers stood around drinking coffee while they watched him do it.
     
  5. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    That's all in the contract
     
  6. Roger1079

    Roger1079

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    :rofl:
     
  7. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Sorry, neither police nor fire are union here.
     
  8. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Dilligaf,

    Can you please explain to us how the union has helped the workers at Hostess? It seems to me that as of today there are 18500 unemployed people that didnt need to be unemployed all due to unions.

    Simply put the money wasnt there to pay them more. A company doesnt go to bankruptcy and liquidate assets if it doesnt have to. So, 5000 greedy,low skill workers close a company and force 18500 out of jobs.

    Explain to us how this is good and why we should look at unions as a positive thing?
     
  9. di11igaf

    di11igaf ibew

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    Firstly I'll respond and answer as long as I'm not attacked like I'm personally responsible for the end of civilization since I'm a union electrician. I did this to better myself and support my family, period. I come to this forum cause I own glocks.
    Secondly,
    Let's look at WHY they went on strike, its the members choice to strike or not. Not only that, if a union strikes, the companies can replace the workers with non-union workers. Back to this later. You said-
    'Simply put the money wasnt there to pay them more. A company doesnt go to bankruptcy and liquidate assets if it doesnt have to. So, 5000 greedy,low skill workers close a company and force 18500 out of jobs.'
    You said it like they were asking for a raise, if this is what you heard its not true. As you said these are already low skill jobs, as far as money in the pocket, probably not much above minimum wage, but they had decent benefits. Hostess want to cut benefits almost in half, as well as cut in the pocket pay. This has been going on for a WHILE now, this just didn't happen over night. Hostess has filed bankruptcy twice in 8 years, but their top 20 got a ****ing 80% salary increase, up until recently record bonuses also. When they stopped the bonuses, they converted part of the performance based bonuses for the top into salary instead, cause they were performing oh so well with 2 backruptcy's. THIS is why they went on strike, a few months ago the top decided they would bump salaries to where they were previously, so ultimately they made no sacrifice, why should the worker, who ISNT raking in millions? Its the owners right to pay whatever salaries he wants to his top management, but its also the workers right to dis-approve of it and not just take it in the ass.
    Should they have striked? I don't know, but put yourself in their shoes, they were probably livid. If it were non-union workers, instead of striking, many would of quit. What would you have done. I don't agree with every thing every union does, I'm not huge on public unions and I know they're not necessary in every industry. I'm in a private union, where the workers and the business owners get along just fine, sometimes even work side by side, as I do with the owner of the contractor I work for. I happen to believe they are a benefit here, obviously so do all the contractors who opened their doors ready to hire our members.
    OK, the end for now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  10. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    Oldie but still good - I actually used this article to help beat back a union organizing effort at one of the plants I managed.

    http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2002_3571467

    "But it has become a sour moment for other labor leaders because the Teamsters didn't use union construction workers.
    They were told by the Teamsters that union contractors cost too much."

    The Teamsters union guys were even smart enough to figure out using union electricians cost too much! :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  11. di11igaf

    di11igaf ibew

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    There's always somebody willing to do it cheaper.
    Ya I remember when that went down you wanna know the really funny thing ?
    They DID hire both union electricians and pipefitters to fix ****ed up **** at that hall less than 2 years after it was done, the contractors who originally did the work only warrantied it for a year. The sad part is it took only a few years for problems to start popping up. I propably still have the newsletter with the article.
    I bet you left that part out of your little anti-union organizing effort didn't you.

    and here look I can do it too- even the non-union contractors agree ibew electricians are better trained, higher skilled workers.
    http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarc...inks-about-Becoming-a-Union-Shop~20000210.php

     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  12. AWoods

    AWoods

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    There may always be someone who can do it cheaper, but there is not always someone who can do it just as well for cheaper. Business owners generally know that you get what you pay for.

    Well the labor cartels shut down another business today, costing 18k people their jobs, shutting down service to the customer, and hurting those foolish enough to invest in a union shop.

    If this had been a right-to-work situation, the company would not have had to shut down.
     
  13. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    Still funny as hell that Teamsters see NO ADDED VALUE to union labor when they are paying for the work -
    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    :rofl:
     
  14. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    I hope every union employee gets the same. Unemployment line.


    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  15. kat1950

    kat1950

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    The unions with their high wages are killing this country, as for construction they take 3 times as long to do something as none union, I live here in Florida and thank god we are with virtually no unions, in the Disney days union workers were so slow, Disney had to call in non union contractors to meet deadlines.

    Just look what they did to the American auto industry. Have relatives that work for GM, if you want to see a disgrace, just go to one of their plants on Monday morning before the gates are opened and look at what is getting paid 3 times more an hour than Toyota in Kentucky, Nissan in Tennessee, BMW in Alabama, etc,etc, it truly is a sicking sight.
     
  16. CaptCave

    CaptCave

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    So a 100% reduction in pay and benefits was better than what Mgmt was offering...:upeyes:

    Another 18k Jobs gone...thanks, bakers, bums, and grain moochers union.

    And another 18k people on the government bill...

    YAY UNIONS
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  17. Roger1079

    Roger1079

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    It doesn't surprise me. I have seen union construction workers do their thing. One guy taking measurements, another doing the framing, another putting up the drywall, and yet another person doing the taping, and another for the mudding. 5 guys to do the job of 2 and they do more sitting and watching not including 15 minute breaks every hour. All while making double what a non union worker makes. It is an absolute joke that anyone defends these organizations.

    The bottom line is anyone that feels they need a union for job security either is working for the wrong company or is doubtful of their own value to the company they work for.

    BY THE WAY, DI11IGAF, YOU STILL HAVE NOT RESPONDED WITH YOUR OPINION OF MY EXAMPLE OF A UNION AT WORK. I REALLY DO WANT TO SEE WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THE WAY MY EXPERIENCE WENT DOWN.
     
  18. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    You need to grow some thicker skin.

    That's the right reason.

    No one is opposed to the idea of unions. People banding together to better represent their collective interests is something we are all free to do.

    The problem is that in this country, unions don't do a good job of representing your interests--they represent their own. Unions should care about the long-term health of the companies their members work for, and they should tell the truth.

    And the truth is, a non-union electrician can do just as good of a job as a union electrician. Do they always? No. But if you quit the union tomorrow and took your skills elsewhere, you'd be just as good an electrician as you are today. Being part of a union doesn't magically make you better. So idiotic hyperbolic stories about how buildings wired by non-union electricians just make you look like a union shill.

    Nope.

    Hostess NEEDED to cut benefits in half in order to survive.

    They couldn't, so they didn't.

    So what?

    Those folks were probably doing a whole lot of work. Not only that, Hostess needed to offer the money in order to attract talent. What kind of top manager wants to join a company that's about to go out of business? Hostess was desperately in need of top management talent, and they had to pay for it.

    When a company has 18k workers, the amount of their pay (even if they make minimum wage) dwarfs what the management makes. If you take a million dollars a year out of the executive pay package and split it up among 18,500 workers, you know what that comes to? Fifty bucks. A year.

    You think those Hostess workers would rather have fifty bucks a year, or have paid a million bucks to get a top manager to oversee their turnaround?
    And how do you think the workers feel about what just happened?

    Of course not.

    How can you say that? They all lost their jobs! They drove the company out of business (again)!

    So what?

    Since when does how one "feels" about something change the math?

    We see instances over and over again where unions in this country fail to represent the best interests of their members. How many times must unions burn their membership before union members say "no"?
     
  19. di11igaf

    di11igaf ibew

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    Ya ya, **** you.
    I should lose my job JUST cause I'm in a union, I have nothing else to say to you other than that

    OK, so you see this with your limited time with union workers, yet ive been on a job site almost every day for over 15 years and I have not seen this ONCE, not one ****ing time.
    First of all , people who frame and hang drywall are in a COMPLETELY different trade than finishers, so were the finishers/painters union also?
    Carpenters don't finish drywall, maybe they can, but union carpenters don't, most non-union don't either.
    Secondly, have you ever hung a piece of 5/8 drywall by yourself or sheet rocked a whole building?This is how its done union or not, its by far the most efficient way. Drywall is almost always two guys. One up on a scaffold taking measurements and hanging, one guy on the ground preps, cuts and helps hang,moves scaffold with the guy still on it to go to the next piece then repeat. otherwise the guy on the scaffold would have to get up and down every.single.sheet., it just don't work like that.
    So all in a day 5 guys - one framing, one measuring, one hanging, one taping, one mudding.
    Soooo, there was nothing at all in these walls? No electric, no plumbing, no insulation, no receptacles, no switches, nothing huh? That's pretty unusual. Before I go farther and call you on the bull****, I'll let you answer and clarify, there wasn't anything in these walls?
    And BTW, never once in 16 years of non-union or union have I had more than one break in a day. Tools on at 7:00, 15 min coffee break at 9:30, tools down at 11:55 back on at 12:30, clean up at 3:15. Religiously every day union or not its universal.
    I've never seen anybody break every hour, if they even tried that **** they'd be gone that day, no doubt about it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  20. Roger1079

    Roger1079

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    I said CONSTRUCTION workers, not ELECTRICIANS. There were outlets in the walls, conduit, flex, boxes for low voltage cabling, etc. as well as 277v light fixtures in the soffet and A/C ducting for vents and returns, but since construction workers don't do electric or air conditioning I didn't mention it. And yes, I have hung drywall before. It isn't rocket science nor does it take a team of people to do. By the way, the framing I was referring to was aluminum also, which I'm pretty sure a carpenter wouldn't handle either.

    And this is now the third time you are ignoring the account I mentioned about union behavior when dealing with a true problem employee. I even gave you the post number to reference. Would you mind reading it and telling me how what happened there was fair for the employer or this persons colleagues? Please rationalize the union's decision in that situation. Are you ignoring it because you know there is no justification, or have you still not bothered to read it because you are too busy ranting about how normal workers do inferior work compared to union employees?