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Assisted living facility denied CPR to woman

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Gun Shark, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. nursetim

    nursetim

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    Hey y'all look up DNR. If the daughter reaction is any indication, a DNR may well have been in place.
     
  2. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

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    That would have been my thought too, if the article hadn't specifically stated there wasn't a DNR. Of course, they could be wrong.
     

  3. silentpoet

    silentpoet

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    There is a post above indicating one was not in place. And when I worked at an assisted living place I don't give a **** what policy was I would do what I could for them if they didn't have a dnr. And we knew who did and didn't have one.
     
  4. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts Brew Crew

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    God, Please give my son the wisdom to not let others care for me in my old age. Over and out.
     
  5. NIB

    NIB

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    Unless there was a do not resuscitate order this place is screwed. I work for a nursing center and I find it hard to believe there is a facility that has this kind of a policy. What do they have a nursing staff for then, to play bones all day! Even if the family is OK with it, the state will not be happy.
     
  6. podwich

    podwich

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    Very odd. While I agree the outcome for an 87-year-old is very likely poor, it is an extremely strange situation where a nurse is refusing to provide an attempt at CPR to a person who is not identified as DNR.

    If they're not going to provide medical care, why have nurses within contact? I'm guessing the apparent policy has something to do with limiting liability, but it's just weird. Maybe the residents sign something regarding non-availability of CPR if they live there? I dunno.
     
  7. faceplant

    faceplant

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    And may he have the wisdom to allow nature to takes it course when you to take your last breath.
     
  8. Pentothal

    Pentothal

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    Well said. At 87 letting nature take its course is appropriate. There are worse things than death.
     
  9. Pentothal

    Pentothal

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    Medication administration. Nurses handle the narcotics, and other meds.
     
  10. GVFlyer

    GVFlyer Senior Member

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    Is this an endorsement of their policies?
     
  11. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts Brew Crew

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    Thank you.
     
  12. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    I can most definitely blame them. If, out of purely monetary concerns around litigation, a medical professional ignores the ethical comitments of their profession, it's time to close the doors and find another line of work.

    Nurses and doctors are there first, foremost and always to assist the sick and dying. The thought of a group of trained nurses sitting around and watching an elderly woman die while a 911 operator begs them to start CPR is morally repulsive.

    I can almost understand the corporate powers-that-be writing a policy to protect the company's bottom line, but one would hope that in a situation as aggregious as this, the nurses involved would have had the moral courage to say "I'm not an accountant, I'm a medical professional first."
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  13. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    If her condition was so hopeless, a "Do Not Resuscitate" order was called for. None was in place.

    The lady's daughter is entitled to her private opinion, but it is clear that her Mother, the deceased, did not feel it was simply "time to go". Do her feelings and desire to live a little longer mean nothing because she was 87?

    I'll be interested in seeing if/how the daughter's opinion changes when the first ambulance chasers start telling her that she likely has a case for a lucrative lawsuit.
     
  14. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    Color me callous, but it is our legal system that got us to a place where we are now.

    The nurse did not do anything wrong. No one - no one can [SUCCESSFULLY] sue her, or her employer. They followed protocol specifically and exactly as dictated. Even as a nurse she has no duty to respond beyond calling 911...and the dispatcher on the phone does not (appear to ) have medical training at a higher level than the nurse.

    Only the nurse's supervisor, a NP, PA or MD could realisitically direct the nurse to perform CPR. That is the way the system is set up. Chances are, grandma was where she was with everyone totally aware of the limitations in place.

    Callous maybe, but I do not see any reason for a huballo. It it were my mom, she would not be there to begin with, UNLESS she wanted to die a fairly natural death. Running CPR on a 86-88yr old...who here has ever done it successfully?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  15. faceplant

    faceplant

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    You do not know the lady or her daughter. You have no clue as to whether she wanted to live or not. It is not uncommon for there to be no DNR. It does not mean she wanted to be revived. Her daughter is entitled to more than just an opinion.
     
  16. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    The article clearly states that there was not a DNR in place. Absent a written DNR order, medical professionals must assume that the patient wants to live - that's why they have DNRs in the first place, so that patients whose condition and quality of life are such that resuscitation is not desired can make their wishes known.

    Is it common for there to be no DNR? Yes, but then again it is common for people to want to live. What isn't common is for medical professionals to pretend that a DNR is in place and act accordingly when such is not the case.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  17. OlliesRevenge

    OlliesRevenge

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    I hope the family sues. If the deceased didn't have a DNR, I think they have a good shot at being compensated for total incompetence and indifference. Lazy and incompetent "assisted" care workers are fairly commonplace nowadays, I can usually count on at least one run a shift for- "code yellow, personal assistance", to pick an elderly person off the floor because the staff on site simply won't help.

    My department has started documenting these runs and is currently challenging these "assisted" care facilities to do what families expect of them.
     
  18. faceplant

    faceplant

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    Bayless died Tuesday at Mercy Hospital Southwest. Toomer told 17 News that is the policy of Glenwood Gardens that staff does not attempt CPR. Toomer said residents are made aware of this policy when they move into the building.

    Bayless did not live in a nursing facility. She lived in the independent living facility where there are no nurses on staff to provide assistance, according to Toomer. It's somewhat of an apartment complex for seniors.

    We also spoke to Bayless' daughter. She said she is a nurse and she remains satisfied with the care her mother received at Glenwood Gardens.

    Independent living with no requirement of medical care. Family is ok with what happened. Why are you guys all worked up about this.
     
  19. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    You don't know what you're talking about, so be quiet for a little while and learn somethings.

    1. The nurse who called 911 had no duty to act. The deceased was not her patient.

    2. Just because there was no DNR does not mean people want to live. This is how the conversation between me and my 40-odd yr old sister went, in the months before she died, while suffering from Stage IV cancer - "What do you want...?"

    Her: "I want this, this and this".

    Me: Ok.

    After that she made me her agent via a health care proxy. Did she (my sis) need a DNR? Absolutely not. When she was incapable of making her own decisions, the doctors and NPs contacted me, and I instructed them on what I wanted (which was what my sister instructed to me).


    To repeat, the deceased was apparently not on the grounds of her facility when she became unconscious. There is no law that COMPELS anyone else to render aid, unless they have a specific duty (on duty anyone who is generally dispatched to a call or who maintain an emergency or general care facility).

    If I am wearing scrubs, and 'scope around my neck, and a name tag that says "Dr. Gallium", if I am not at work at a medical facility, or if I have not been dispatched while on duty, or called onto active duty, I have no obligation or requirement to render aid to anyone.
     
  20. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    :faint::faint:
    Your middle school is a more likely candidate for a lawsuit, based on your awful, piss-poor display of lack of reading comprehension, and inability to connect-the-dots. :tongueout: