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Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by TBO, May 28, 2020.
Sounds like a improved version of the copperhead round from the 70s. Hardly earth shattering news.
Not in field artillery.
The press release from Raytheon uses a decimal point in front of its .52 caliber designation. I'm confused.
Going to try it out with the MN National Guard?
Yeah, but it’s the counter attack that’s an MF!
Better stay 18.7 miles away from that baby...
I did not say 155mm x 58mm I said 155mm x58. That equals a 8990mm or 8.99 meters or just over 29'6" barrel length with about a 6.1 bore. You see this type of thing used a lot in describing cannons. The German panzer IV started with a stubby 75mm L24 gun, that is 75mm x24 = a 1.8 meters long barrel. The next gun upgrade was a 75mm L43 gun with a 3.225 meter long barrel. The final version was an L48 gun. the L43 and L48 guns used the same ammo.
That has been said many times before and is still not true. To win you need firepower. Your firepower should be mobile. Mobile firepower and the crews are expensive so we armor them. Some modern weapons can defeat any practicable level of armor. To defeat modern weapons we are adding active protection systems that detect and destroy incoming weapons.
I believe that part of the reason the USMC is giving up on tanks is their high vulnerability to fully automated next gen tank killers.
Will your tank defensive measure detect a robot 155mm fired from 18mi away, and coming straight down through the roof?
We have systems that will do that, yes.
And the Marines are also tailoring their force for island fighting. They’re not giving up their tanks but expecting their infantry to go toe to toe with enemy armor. They’re finally getting back to their purpose, not trying to be a mini Army on a slice of the funding.
Just because you read it, doesn’t mean you get the full specification.
We omit, and lie about a lot.
What’s old is new again.
My dad was with the 949th FA Bn, medium artillery with four batteries of M1 155mm howitzers. They ended up engaging a column of Panthers and half-tracks from the Panzer-Brigade 106 Feldherrnhalle near Mairy, France in the fall of 1944. Here’s a short blurb from Steve Zaloga’s
Lorraine 1944: Patton versus Manteuffel
Dad told me in their after action inspection that all of the tankers in the Panzers had died, even where there was no evidence of the armor being pieced. Apparently even proximity explosion of HE rounds ruined those tankers day!
I'm open to being informed in more detail, but 'not in field artillery' doesn't give me much to go on?
I'm not expert in field artillery, but the Iowa-class battleship main guns are known by the description 16"/50 calibers
the secondary battery is 5"/38 caliber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16"/50_caliber_Mark_7_gun
The M114 155mm howitzer is 155mm/24.5 calibers (on the length sidebar)
M3 lightweight 105mm howitzer is 105mm/17.9 calibers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_howitzer
It's the standard method of defining barrel length for large guns and artillery, and has been for at least a century, as far as I'm aware. If you have other info/sources, I'm happy to learn more?
The Naval guns are different from Army artillery. Naval projectiles have a much flatter trajectory than artillery guns. Tanker guns are also different.
I was an artillery officer way back in 1976. The "caliber" of the artillery was specified with 90mm, 155mm, 175mm, and 8". Those were the guns available back then. If you read the article I linked, Ratheon talks about a .52 caliber. I have no idea what's that about.
You're of course correct that the caliber of the gun is 90mm, etc.
The Raytheon press release is just wrong, someone clearly is used to handguns, and put a . in front of the 52 for length in calibers.
But as my links and Deltic's discussion show, the longtime standard method for discussing large guns (naval, tank AND artillery) of the same caliber, but different barrel lengths is to define them by multiples of the caliber, which is why the article mentions the 52 vs 58 (caliber multiple) barrel length.
It's no surprise that this isn't used on a daily basis by arty types, but it is, was and always has been the standard way these guns are described.
Sometimes "creative" media and customer relations folks don't fully understand their subject matter.
Here it is. From Wikipedia.
It's not quite precise. It's the barrel length from breech face to muzzle, not from the start of the rifling to the muzzle.
Meanwhile, the Marines have all, but abandoned, their armor divisions.
HMMM. Looks like an updated TOW to me. Not my favorite AT weapon, by far. They do work, but the gunner cannot fire and forget, he has to optically track the target thru the sites. Gunner winds up being a target himself. At least used to be, that may have changed since I was in.