[Alex Smith]

Not hardly. They broke into the gated community at a gate near their property. There was yelling, blah, blah, then the home owners come out & start pointing guns at people. In most states, pointing a gun at a person is assault with a deadly weapon. LEO shoot you for that. So yeah embarrassing. raw fear is never a reason start pointing guns.

The Missouri AG did make sure they were let off though, so he must not have had a problem with what they did. I get what you’re saying but it is a crime to trespass I’m a private community.
They did look pretty goofy but you could make an argument for some form of self defense.

 

[fredj338]

The Missouri AG did make sure they were let off though, so he must not have had a problem with what they did. I get what you’re saying but it is a crime to trespass I’m a private community.
They did look pretty goofy but you could make an argument for some form of self defense.

Yeah but in most states, you cant use deadly force to remove a trespasser. Pointing guns at people is a threat of use of deadly force, as noted, cops shoot you for that. Its certainly an escalation. They were lucky that no one in the crowd took them seriously & opened fire on them. Also lucky they didnt accidentally shoot someone. I could almost hear them saying "get off my lawn"! Goofy is an understatement.
Imagine a road rage incident, guy points a gun at you, you shoot him in self defense. Who is at fault? I think most jurors would say the guy pointed a gun at you & got what he deserved. Yeah they got off because it was Missouri, but still stupid.

 

[fredj338]

I stand corrected then.

I didn't watch it myself but had heard that the mob intended to burn them out or otherwise dispose of them.

Last I looked, yelling crap, even threats without the ability to do carry it out, isnt a deadly force event. If so, every bar fight would end in a shooting.

 

[Alex Smith]

Yeah but in most states, you cant use deadly force to remove a trespasser. Pointing guns at people is a threat of use of deadly force, as noted, cops shoot you for that. Its certainly an escalation. They were lucky that no one in the crowd took them seriously & opened fire on them. Also lucky they didnt accidentally shoot someone. I could almost hear them saying "get off my lawn"! Goofy is an understatement.
Imagine a road rage incident, guy points a gun at you, you shoot him in self defense. Who is at fault? I think most jurors would say the guy pointed a gun at you & got what he deserved. Yeah they got off because it was Missouri, but still stupid.

I’m not sure about Missouri but I know in Texas you can use deadly force to remove a trespasser. I agree with what you’re saying though it was bad optics. And clearly they had not been practicing, they appeared to not know what they were doing.

 

[fredj338]

I’m not sure about Missouri but I know in Texas you can use deadly force to remove a trespasser. I agree with what you’re saying though it was bad optics. And clearly they had not been practicing, they appeared to not know what they were doing.

Practicing? I bet that was the first time they touched their guns. Apparently the US govt can use deadly force for criminal trespass. I wouldnt want to try it though on unarmed trespassers.

 

[RGP]

I’m not sure about Missouri but I know in Texas you can use deadly force to remove a trespasser. I agree with what you’re saying though it was bad optics. And clearly they had not been practicing, they appeared to not know what they were doing.

Speaking from Texas, don't bet on that.

 

[Alex Smith]

Practicing? I bet that was the first time they touched their guns. Apparently the US govt can use deadly force for criminal trespass. I wouldnt want to try it though on unarmed trespassers.

I wouldn’t either.

 

[RGP]

Practicing? I bet that was the first time they touched their guns. Apparently the US govt can use deadly force for criminal trespass. I wouldnt want to try it though on unarmed trespassers.

I figured it was the second time they touched them... first time was when they took them out of the box.

 

[Alex Smith]

Speaking from Texas, don't bet on that.

Some of my family lives in Texas. I could be mistaken, Is that not the case?

 

[MarkCO]

carry Underwood

Isn't that a country singer? 🤣

 

[Texas Sheepdawg]

I like Paul Harrell. Mainly because he’s very thorough and open minded about firearms and testing the limits of the firearm itself and the multiple types of ammunition available. But I also like him because he triggers the egomaniacal narcissists that seem to also lurk in our culture.

 

[Alex Smith]

I like Paul Harrell. Mainly because he’s very thorough and open minded about firearms and testing the limits of the firearm itself and the multiple types of ammunition available. But I also like him because he triggers the egomaniacal narcissists that seem to also lurk in our culture.

And I bet he could out shoot all of them

 

[PEC-Memphis]

(1) When you see the WWB hollow point doing the same “damage” as the stuff I’ve been carrying, makes you wonder…

(2) This man has been in a self defense shooting (more than the vast majority of us can say) and I respect his opinion.

(3) Also worth noting that he does not have sponsors, which in my mind makes his opinion MUCH more credible. No sponsors means no reason to shill for any certain company, or make you think you need to spend money you don’t.

(4) He has some other videos on this subject too.

(1) Yes, it should make you wonder about the testing protocol that doesn't discriminate between different designs.

(2) Being in a (questionable, as in this case, or not) SD shooting does not make opinions on terminal ballistics more, or less, valid.

(3) See #2, above.

(4) Repeating bad data doesn't make it more valid.

 

[PEC-Memphis]

(1) The Missouri AG did make sure they were let off though, so he must not have had a problem with what they did.

(2) I get what you’re saying but it is a crime to trespass I’m a private community.

(3) They did look pretty goofy but you could make an argument for some form of self defense.

(1) The AG, as I recall: (1) "didn't let them off", (2) they were found (plead) guilty of several charges, and (3) later pardoned by the Governor.

(2) The "trespassers" were not on the property of the McCloskey's, they were on common areas of the private community.

(3) It would be a hard case to make that they were in reasonable fear/belief of death or serious bodily harm when they were (1) not taking cover and (2) advancing on the unarmed people in the common area of the community while brandishing a firearm.

 

[Alex Smith]

(1) The AG, as I recall: (1) "didn't let them off", (2) they were found gulity of several charges ,and (3) later pardoned by the Governor.

(2) The "trespassers" were not on the property of the McCloskey's, they were on common areas of the private community.

(3) It would be a hard case to make that they were in reasonable fear/belief of death or serious bodily harm when they were (1) not taking cover and (2) advancing on the unarmed people in the common area of the community while brandishing a firearm.

It was a gated community, the entire premises were private. The protestors broke through the gate and were trespassing. My apologies the Governor pardoned them, thought it was the AG. A pardon/letting them off, seems like the same thing to me.

 

[Alex Smith]

(1) Yes, it should make you wonder about the testing protocol that doesn't discriminate between different designs.

(2) Being in a (questionable, as in this case, or not) SD shooting does not make opinions on terminal ballistics more, or less, valid.

(3) See #2, above.

(4) Repeating bad data doesn't make it more valid.

His SD altercation was questionable? It is not directly applicable but that combined with his experience on this topic in general does add credibility to him that the average person doesn’t have was all I was saying.

 

[RGP]

Some of my family lives in Texas. I could be mistaken, Is that not the case?

"Criminal trespass" is not the same as "somebody on my property."

 

[PEC-Memphis]

It was a gated community, the entire premises were private. The protestors broke through the gate and were trespassing. My apologies the Governor pardoned them, thought it was the AG. A pardon/letting them off, seems like the same thing to me.

Yes, as I said before, the community was/is private - but it was not the McCloskey's property. In most states, there is a difference in someone trespassing on "your" property (as a defender) and someone trespassing on someone else's property (as in this case).

And no, the protestors did not "break/broke" through the gate. This is very common misinformation. The gate, although posted, was open. (This is on publicly available video). It was later broken down. It is unclear who actually broke the gate (well after the protestors entered).

And no, being charged and convicted - then pardoned is different than "letting them off" (which isn't even a legal term/status).

 

[PEC-Memphis]

(1) His SD altercation was questionable?

(2) It is not directly applicable but that combined with his experience on this topic in general does add credibility to him that the average person doesn’t have was all I was saying.

(1) Yes, it was.

(2) I'm not sure what "his experience" is that adds alot of credibility. Sure, I'd say he is more credible than the "average person" - but that isn't setting the bar very high. I know (that it is said) that he has military experience so that's a plus. I personally know a FBI HRT/Sniper that I like alot, great guy. He was the team leader on the Jimmy ***** [1]/Alabama hostage incident. But he can't tell you JS about terminal ballistics, bullet BC's/SD's, Miller stability, etc. - and he isn't hesitant to tell "you" so.

ETA[1] - The nanny filter is blocking the name of the guy who took Ethan Gilman hostage, it is d*y*k*e*s

 

[Deputy]

Getting back on topic, I'm am Underwood convert. I use it in ALL my firearms used for serious encounters. And I use the Lehigh bullett version.