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Are Homosexuals born or made?

  1. If Homosexuals are 'made' by environment, that would explain why they exist. Instead, If some males are born homosexual, if there is a Homosexual gene, wouldn't they have disappeared long ago? If it is a gene that must be inherited, since they don't reproduce (as a rule) wouldn't they have become extinct? So Homosexuality must be a learned behaviour. What's wrong with this argument?
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  3. Homosexuality is ideology. People are manipulated into thinking one particular ideology is right and another is wrong. It is hard for people to get past their bias. It is becoming normal to think nothing of it. Who cares? Be gay, be strait, get over it.
  4. Not genetic or Inherited. Just different hormones at puberty probably.

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  5. First, let me just say that I’ve seen no solid science to suggest that a “gay gene” exists, however; operating within the question that you posed, You’re assuming all gene abnormalities are inherited. Some genes abnormalities can be caused by random mutations. This would explain why a straight couple could have a gay child.

    I think the bigger question is why do you care whether it’s an inherent trait or a learned one?
  6. fortunately I have never had to pay too much attention to this issue.
  7. Well this is a loaded question
    No matter which side you take you will blasted by those in opposition
    If you do not side with them
    God help them all
    I know what I believe and know what is written in the Bible
    For everything is speculation as no one truly knows
    I have a very rare blood disease which was inherited from both of my birth parents that I just recently learned about after being very ill for over 12 years
    Without real proof there will never be a end to this question
    God Bless,John

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  8. I always took “born” as just a misnomer for “didn’t choose” to be gay, whatever the reason.
  9. Don't know, don't care.

    Equal rights for everyone, across the board, whether you're gay, straight, black, white, male, or female.
  10. GOD said it is SIN. It is one's choice.
  11. I have known a number who were clearly born that way. A cousin was horrified by boy toys, always wanted to be "the mommy" playing house and 35 years later he's married to a man.

    There may be a continuum and some may even choose.

    It matters not whether they are born that way or make it a choice. I think they should be free to live how they like with other consenting adults.

    Those who make a distinction in how legal, illegal, acceptable, etc... it is based on whether it's innate or a choice seem to miss the bigger picture about individual freedom.
  12. All the time I spent in combat I didn't care what a person's sex interest, religion, color, political persuasion etc was. I only cared if they could do their job.
    Later in life I was in senior management for many years. I carried that same philosophy with me, and all my teams performed exactly to expectations.
    I still use that same mindset. I don't have to always like a person, I just want them to do their job to the best of their ability.
    All that matters is competency and integrity. Nothing else is my business.
  13. IBTL
    Bettin No happy end for this thread
  14. I have a friend I know who is gay, and we discussed this in depth one night at the bar. He says the thought of having sex with a woman is just as distasteful to him as it is to me thinking about sex with a man. He is just hard wired that way, as I am hard wired the way I am. Were it a choice, he certainly would not have taken a path that led him to being beaten up, to losing complete contact with his father, and actually being afraid to let some people know how he feels. I don't think for one minute it is a choice. There is just too much trauma that many gays have had to deal with to live that lifestyle by choice.

    Sure the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. It says the same thing about adultery, but I don't know anyone who committed adultery who was disowned by their family for doing so.
  15. Are you asking for yourself??
  16. Gotta agree. For the record, I'm leaning toward "born" that way. I have very little info to go on, but the one thing I do have I think is a doozy - I don't remember ever "choosing" to be straight, so I have to assume the same goes for being gay. I get that you can absolutely choose your behavior, but can you really choose who you're attracted to? I think not.
  17. The idea that homosexuality is a choice is just not valid to me
  18. Seems to me not a choice - made (programmed) by genes or environment.
  19. My MIL has a cat that's homosexual. It's homosexual tendencies became more pronounced after she had him repaired. We tried to tell her this would happen, but she simply refused to listen. You can tell the cat is homosexual by the way it meows. It's kinda high pitched and always ends with a lisp. Also, he always holds his tail straight up. He's a real pretty cat, but doesn't seem to like to kill mice, or fight with the other tomcats. I think in the cat's situation it's a mixture of nature and nurture. She said that even as a kitten it seemed to have strong "tendencies" indicating a nature component. Additionally, the poor cat was raised by my MIL with no strong masculine influence, as my FIL has been dead for a number of years, indicating a nurture component. I've always believed in live and let live.
  20. I firmly believe you're born that way. I spent 24 years in the navy and spent many days at sea, I never had the desire, oh forgot to mention this was when only men and boys (I started at 17) went to sea, had no desire to, well you know what. When guys like Rock Hudson would prefer a man when he could of had many a fine women I think that settled it for me.

    PS: I have no ill will towards anyone, as long as they have no ill will towards me or my family
  21. Of course it's not fundamentally a choice. People want to be all sorts of things, but really being something is more about you being chosen by it.

    I've known a few gays who suffered to such a great extent... there's not even a chance they chose that path.

    The Bible arguments don't really hold any water. People have a wide range of 'sinful' proclivities that come largely from beyond their conscious choice.
  22. Santinover's book Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth is an interesting read. He, like everyone, has a bias/perspective (in his case, a Christian psychiatrist, I believe; although, it was a little hard to tell if he was Christian or Jewish just by reading the book), but he handles the data reasonably well.

    The first half of his book looks at medical & psychological aspects. It isn't nearly as simple as "born that way" (most think in terms of a "gay" gene) or a "choice" of the will. He looks at the data available relating to genetics, genetic influences, potential in utero dynamics, environmental influences, choice, and other possible influences.

    The one challenge, which he already pointed out in his now more than 20 year old book is that even at the time he was writing, there were essentially no more studies being done because homosexuality was no longer considered a disorder. If it isn't a disorder, clinically speaking, there isn't much drive to study it. If it isn't being studied, we don't have good data to understand just what's going on in someone's genes/development/mind/whatever. Or, as some would say today, it isn't PC to ask those questions anymore.
  23. derp
  24. F66F99E9-CA7B-442F-A6A7-44F1581A9E98.jpeg
  25. Some people are just wired different. Same as a liberal brain and a conservative one to some degree.
  26. I don’t see how being gay is any different than guys (or girls I guess) who are attracted to Asians or chubby people. It’s all personal preference.
  27. I shave without lotion or cream and with COLD WATER! But I also sing show tunes while I do it.

    Is this genetic or learned?
  28. Yeah, but not all homosexuals are crazy, seems all democrats are, and those that aren’t are exceptions that prove the rule.
  29. Your subconscious is causing you to overcompensate. This over compensation has manifested itself by your shaving the hard way. I wonder if your repertoire of show tunes includes this iconic tune?

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONwYOhpIAoY
  30. I think some are born wired that way, I think many are drawn to it by a mental illness, a perverse sense of wanting to be "oppressed" for some reason.
  31. I can't say one way or the other. The community has a high drug and alcohol abuse rate though, so there may be other factors at play.
    I know a lot of women who have been turned by former male partners mistreating them. Of course they could use that as an excuse, but most women are only a few drinks away from being into women it has seemed.
    Interesting thoughts and probably no right answer.
  32. My half brother is gay. I've discussed this w him extensively. He says he made no more decision to be gay than I did to b straight.

    My father's ex wife who is his mother was extremely domineering and controlling. When my brother was young his being gay was attributed to this. My brother and some of his friends you I have talked to in depth all believe that it is just how you are born.
  33. Guess it depends on what one thinks as crazy. Both are to me. One for what I call a perversion and the other for beliefs.
  34. As long as they're not in my face, who cares?
  35. I believe it is a learned, recruited behavior. I have my reasons but I am not going to write a 6 paragraph post.
    I try not to discriminate.
  36. They were born by a mother.
    Your point that it would essentially weed itself out makes sense. I do recall reading a study (sorry I cannot recall the journal), that pedigrees with a homosexual individual also aunts that had larger number of children than the population. It was suggested that the homosexual trait was offset (genetics/evolution)by the high reproduction rates in a previous generation.
    This seemed to answer the point raised in your question.
    I think homosexuality is a good thing with respect to population growth and their contribution to adoption. With respect to the bible, if love is the greatest commandment then everyone who has a loving heart should be okay.
  37. How would your post sound if you were to replace Homosexuality with Obesity ?

    "I have a friend I know who is OBESE, and we discussed this in depth one night at the BUFFET bar. He says the thought of having NO FOOD is just as distasteful to him as it is to me thinking about SAUERKRAUT. He is just hard wired that way..."

    And blame it on Genetic while you're at it.
  38. Well, I'm not surprised the community has a high drug and alcohol abuse rate. I doubt, though, there is any causation. While it is accepted much more than it was in the past, just reading the vitriol directed towards gays here on GT clearly shows our society has a long way to go. That's likely the reason for the drug and alcohol abuse.
  39. Plenty of substance abuse across the whole population, really.
  40. I wonder if the drug and alcohol abuse causes/contributes to their proclivities regarding their sexuality. In other word, would they cavort with other men if they weren't drunk, or high?
  41. Well, considering it's been known to exist among humankind since our (currently known) earliest written records, it's not difficult to speculate that its existence predates those written records. You'd think that we'd have realized it's one of the myriad facets of human behavior by now.
  42. I’m trying to understand your post. Can you translate the bolder part above for me?
  43. I really do not understand what it is you are trying to say.
  44. Was it god, or was it the Catholic Church some time in the 13th century.

  45. The question actually falls in to 2 different categories that show promise of scientific data supporting them.

    The first is genetics.
    Just because we haven't located the individual gene that may or may not be programmed for hormone production, scent, sex preference, etc doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In fact, we have witnessed homosexual behavior throughout the animal kingdom. With us being animals, that leads me to believe that there is most likely a genetic switch to make someone be gay.

    The second is behavior.
    Lots of things in affect and can influence behavior. Those external factors contribute to many things. Do you like brunettes? Blondes? Curly hair? Black women? White women? Men? Experiences and social structuring can affect these things can change how you view this topic. In 2020, it's not just socially acceptible to be gay, trans, etc, it's socially promoted. That means people feel free-er to make the decision to act in homosexual ways.

    It's my opinion having known quite a few gay folks that the overwhelming majority(IMO around 75%) have had some kind of external influence that caused the to humanly behave as homosexual or otherwise. The remaining (and I'd guess it's maybe 25%) were born that way.

  46. I know it’s hard to imagine, but he’s comparing obesity to homosexuality, and claiming that eating too many calories is the same thing as being attracted to the same sex.

    Assuming that homosexuality isn’t entirely (or almost entirely) genetic, which is probably is, any influencing, non-genetic factors would occur doing formative years as a child - so either way it’s basically completely out of their control.
  47. I’ve been drunk plenty of times (might be now, who knows). Never had the urge to mingle with a man.

    The reason the abuse is so high is because hypocrites judge them by what they do in the bedroom and try to drive them out of communities or make them hide who they really are.

    Glad I am not titled by what I do in the bedroom. I’m not all that exciting. If I had to be given a title based on my bedroom activities, I would probably have to give up police work and move to Africa and try to convert people to Christianity and build schools.
  48. One can also argue, convincingly, that the heterosexual community has a high drug and alcohol abuse rate, too. Is that caused due to stressors because of their sexual orientation, or stressors caused by others unwillingness to accept them as they are?
  49. Since their sexual proclivities probably showed up around puberty, presumably long before their first drink or joint, I'd have to say, yes, they would. While you may find this shocking, not all gay men are alcoholics or drug addicts. Some are, of course, and it may even be a somewhat higher percentage than the general population, but that's probably because they have to deal with the astounding level of ignorance that many people have regarding gays.

    What I really find amazing is how willing people are to put that ignorance on display.
  50. The lock is near