Glock Talk banner
Cancel

AR question

1316 Views 29 Replies 21 Participants Last post by  LawScholar, 
K
My friend and I discuss the AR platform and he is very persistent in saying that the AR is a terrible rifle...

Help me convince him otherwise...

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
Reply
Save
Like
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
jrs93accord
It is so terrible that I own 19 of them.


I own many rifles. The AR is, by far, one of my favorites. I would ask your friend why he thinks it is so terrible. Every weapon platform has its pros and cons. That is why I own several different kinds of rifles. Different tools for different jobs.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
F
List some examples of his reasons behind it being a terrible rifle and I'm sure we can list some good retorts.
Reply
Save
Like
C
I like mine better than the AK I put together. Less recoil, quicker on target, modular, etc etc. Plus I can reload for it, unlike the AK.
Reply
Save
Like
M2 Carbine
My friend and I discuss the AR platform and he is very persistent in saying that the AR is a terrible rifle...
Click to expand...
Is his opinion from experience with the gun?

Unless a person starts off something like, "I've owned a AR and shot it quite a bit and I think.............."
or,
"I haven't owned a AR but I have a lot of personal experience shooting the gun and I think............."
I don't pay a lot of attention to the person's opinion.


It's a strange thing how people can become experts on guns just by picking one up at a gun show.:supergrin:


Plus I can reload for it, unlike the AK.
Click to expand...
Why can't you reload for the AK? I've been reloading for the AK, CZ527, etc, for some years.
Reply
Save
Like
R
M2 Carbine said:
Why can't you reload for the AK? I've been reloading for the AK, CZ527, etc, for some years.
Click to expand...
Why would you need to reload for an AK? 7.62x39 is half the cost (or less) than any brass-cased 5.56.
Reply
Save
Like
K
He has owned one.

He boasts their unreliability... poor bolt design... cheap design... military used them because they are were the cheapest bid... picky with ammo... uncomfortable to chamber the weapon... etc..

He shoots a galil ... and I am considering an ar for myself and he is trying to talk me out of it...

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
Reply
Save
Like
Ljunatic
Let him shoot whatever he wants
Reply
Save
Like
Glockdude1
Millions of AR owners can't be wrong.

:cool:
Reply
Save
Like
I
I know a ton of people who have AR's, and out of those, a few might have minor issues but the vast majority run the guns til they are out of ammo, then go get some more. I have three and I have yet to have a problem with mine. It's a disease for most, very few can stop with just one.

I'd be curious to know what kind he had and why he was suffering from all those malfunctions at the junctions.

Ljunatic is right, let him shoot what he wants, and you go get an AR.
Reply
Save
Like
jrs93accord
kylet said:
He has owned one.

He boasts their unreliability... poor bolt design... cheap design... military used them because they are were the cheapest bid... picky with ammo... uncomfortable to chamber the weapon... etc..

He shoots a galil ... and I am considering an ar for myself and he is trying to talk me out of it...

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like he has an "inferiority" complex when it comes to the AR. Usually, when people are uncomfortable with something they know very little about, they tend to trash talk it. They then escape to something that is much simpler and easier for them to understand and operate.

I have been around the M16/AR15 platform since 1978. The early M16s were plagued with some problems due to cleaning issues. Early on, noone knew they need to be cleaned and how. That was soon remedied. When I first picked up the M16A1 in 1978, my eyes lit up. It beat the hell out of the little .22 rifles I was use to. I have been fascinated with them every since. I say to you, if you want to get an AR, by golly, you go get one and enjoy it. We would welcome you into the Black Rifle Family with open arms. :supergrin:
Reply
Save
Like
fastbolt
Why bother?

Does it really matter to you what he thinks?

I mean, really. Why would you feel the need to change his mind about what he wants to own and use (as long as it's legal, of course)?

Do your own research and try to make your own informed decision to the best of your ability.

The AR platform has served as the main battle rifle for our country for longer than any other design. It's used by an amazing number of foreign countries, as well (including Israel, which replaced the FN FAL with the Galil in the early 70's).

As an instructor, and having been through 4 AR/M16 armorer classes by 2 different makers of AR's, as well as a "non-factory" class), it's not unusual for the reported "problems" to involve a number of issues not necessarily related to the design and inherent operating qualities of the AR platform ... such as improper maintenance, poor quality ammunition and poor quality magazines (including magazines which have been damaged or improperly maintained.

Yes, operating design variations and the perceived desire for different ammunition have been suggested for a long time. Improvements have been made over the years, too.

However, it can be amazing how well older M16A1's from the late 60's will stand up to continued use in LE service, having been taken out of military service and made available to LE, with just some reasonable maintenance, support and the use of decent quality ammunition & magazines.

I've seen my fair share on rifles & carbines made for the commercial market, produced with some parts of unknown origin and quality, fail to run as well as the older, well-worn rifles under just the "rigors" of minimal training, quals & classes, though. That obviously doesn't mean that all, or even many, of the commercial grade AR's are going to be problematic, though. Not at all.

Become knowledgeable about the proper operation, use & maintenance of the AR platform.

Buy quality.

Use good ammunition & magazines.

Clean & maintain the equipment.

Replace any parts which become damaged or worn (or have it done by a gunsmith, company repair tech or an armorer).

Quality of manufacture and parts is important, as with other machinery & equipment.

Opinions? They can certainly vary.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
K
I appreciate the responses...

The purpose of this is partially just because of friendly banter, and me not being knowledgeable enough about the AR to defend what I believe to be a quality firearm... and also because I have an interest in getting one and he is trying to talk me out of it... so I'm mainly asking for advice or guidance on the validity of his argument....



These are his actual points...

1. Bad charging handle location/design
2. Lack of forward bolt assist
3. Poor forward gas block design/assembly which requires armorer to disassemble or repair
4. Poor gas system exhaust port... far expelled into shooters face if muzzle is disturbed during firing
5. Cost cutting has led to market wide decrease in machine quality...
6. Poorly designed recoil tube can jam bolts in "custom" Arsenal
7. Why buy a gun you have to modify to make nice?


Have at it gentleman! I appreciate the guidance and talking points.

Like I said, I lack knowledge in the AR and am curious if his point are accurate.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
brisk21
jrs93accord said:
It is so terrible that I own 19 of them.


I own many rifles. The AR is, by far, one of my favorites. I would ask your friend why he thinks it is so terrible. Every weapon platform has its pros and cons. That is why I own several different kinds of rifles. Different tools for different jobs.
Click to expand...

A bunch of AR-15s and 1911s. Damn I wish you were my neighbor!!
Reply
Save
Like
U
Your friend eats too much granola and likes too much organic produce. Tell him to stop running barefoot in the grass and back the jive boat back to reality.

The AR is a fine weapon. If you need to use it as a concealed carry weapon, or to cut other people's lawns, or to take down a cruise missile in North Korea, then fine, yes an AR is not what you're looking for.
Reply
Save
Like
U
Double post... Oops
Reply
Save
Like
jrs93accord
brisk21 said:
A bunch of AR-15s and 1911s. Damn I wish you were my neighbor!!
Click to expand...
The house next to me is for sale. :supergrin:
Reply
Save
Like
jrs93accord
kylet said:
I appreciate the responses...

The purpose of this is partially just because of friendly banter, and me not being knowledgeable enough about the AR to defend what I believe to be a quality firearm... and also because I have an interest in getting one and he is trying to talk me out of it... so I'm mainly asking for advice or guidance on the validity of his argument....



These are his actual points...

1. Bad charging handle location/design
2. Lack of forward bolt assist
3. Poor forward gas block design/assembly which requires armorer to disassemble or repair
4. Poor gas system exhaust port... far expelled into shooters face if muzzle is disturbed during firing
5. Cost cutting has led to market wide decrease in machine quality...
6. Poorly designed recoil tube can jam bolts in "custom" Arsenal
7. Why buy a gun you have to modify to make nice?


Have at it gentleman! I appreciate the guidance and talking points.

Like I said, I lack knowledge in the AR and am curious if his point are accurate.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
Click to expand...
His points are a total farce. This guy obviously has Cranial Rectalitis (Head up ***** desease).
Reply
Save
Like
D
It's only a good rifle if YOU like it. There are several alternatives to AR. Downside is parts availability and overall cost.
Reply
Save
Like
fastbolt
kylet said:
I appreciate the responses...

The purpose of this is partially just because of friendly banter, and me not being knowledgeable enough about the AR to defend what I believe to be a quality firearm... and also because I have an interest in getting one and he is trying to talk me out of it... so I'm mainly asking for advice or guidance on the validity of his argument....



These are his actual points...

1. Bad charging handle location/design Personal opinion. Compared to what? Might be a training issue that needs to be addressed as far as his experience and abilities to use the platform. It is what it is, and there are less convenient designs around. Just don't leave it in the rearward position after retracting it to function the BCG and chamber a round. Avoid the potential for a nasty injury. Move it back forward to lock it in position.

2. Lack of forward bolt assist Not a critical issue for most normal usage, especially for sporting/range enjoyment firearms. If it matters to you, buy one with the forward assist.

3. Poor forward gas block design/assembly which requires armorer to disassemble or repair How many times and for what reasons does he envision having to remove the gas block? :upeyes: Not something you want to do unless you must do so for repair, even as an armorer. Those tapered pins are not easy to remove, and for a reason.

4. Poor gas system exhaust port... far expelled into shooters face if muzzle is disturbed during firing Really? Happened to him, has it?

5. Cost cutting has led to market wide decrease in machine quality... Blather. Don't buy poor quality. If anything, the increase in competition has resulted in the availability of better quality parts, as long as you don't buy bargain-basement, too-good-to-be-true-priced parts of unknown origin and quality.

6. Poorly designed recoil tube can jam bolts in "custom" Arsenal ?? "Jamming" bolts? In "custom Arsenal"? Have him rephrase that one, using better nomenclature, just to make sure it means what I think he's trying to say. Not that it will matter ... since it goes back to buying from quality manufacturers & using quality parts, maintaining it and using good quality ammunition. How many BCG's has he had "jammed" in the recoil spring tube?

7. Why buy a gun you have to modify to make nice? Indeed. Good question. Why buy something that isn't what you want? Depends on what someone means by "nice", though. I lean toward quality of manufacture, operation, functioning, durability and a good service life, myself. You can select from among a lot of interesting options nowadays, although the usefulness ... or "niceness" ... of any particular piece of additional equipment is up to the owner/user. Maybe he likes something in a nice color with cool looking plastic gadgets and geegaws hanging off it. Dunno.


Have at it gentleman! I appreciate the guidance and talking points.

Like I said, I lack knowledge in the AR and am curious if his point are accurate.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
Click to expand...
My comments are indicate in blue above.

Like I said. Start doing your own research. Take internet forum enthusiast chatter, as well as personal opinions of friends and gun store clerks, with a pound of salt and some healthy skepticism until corroborated elsewhere. Only you have an idea of the actual experience, knowledge & experience of your friend ... maybe. Consider his opinions, suggestions and advice (and potential bias) accordingly.

My thoughts are just that ... my thoughts. Even though I've been to a number of armorer classes, have spoken with some manufacturer reps, instructors, etc, and have spent some time helping support a small number of rifles in actual use (100, give or take, at any particular time), I'm not anybody's expert in this subject. My opinions have been formed by my training & experience, that's all.

The subject of AR's can stir up an amazing amount of debate, argument, strident shouting and no small amount of proselytizing on a good day. ;)

Luck to you. :)
Reply
Save
Like
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Glock Talk
A forum community dedicated to Glock firearm owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, troubleshooting, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Glocking General Firearms Forum Sold/Expired Cop Talk GSSF
Top